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Old 24th September 2017, 22:38   #141
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I think they pick the squad on Wed. don't they?

So Cook, Root, Stokes, Ali, Bairstow, Anderson and Broad are pencilled in.

Stoneman, Woakes (if fit), Malan, will probably go.

There are about 20 others who could be in the squad, but let's not forget that the Lions also tour. In Australia, we will have another large squad of players around. We will have over 30 players who could possibly get in the team. Why do we need to take a reserve keeper, when Buttler or Foakes are playing top class cricket. I find the whole idea of a squad of 17 rather antiquated tbh. If, say, Anderson (heaven forbid!) strains a fetlock, Finn, Curran(s) etc, are going to be a few hours away and have a few overs under their belt. So it goes with the batsmen. Malan fails or needs to go home for personal reasons, then see who is batting well under Aussie conditions. Traditionally a newbie carries the drinks. Hopefully that won't be a player of the calibre of Finn, Rashid or Buttler.
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Old 24th September 2017, 22:47   #142
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Why do we need to take a reserve keeper, when Buttler or Foakes are playing top class cricket. I find the whole idea of a squad of 17 rather antiquated tbh. If, say, Anderson (heaven forbid!) strains a fetlock, Finn, Curran(s) etc, are going to be a few hours away and have a few overs under their belt. So it goes with the batsmen. Malan fails or needs to go home for personal reasons, then see who is batting well under Aussie conditions. Traditionally a newbie carries the drinks. Hopefully that won't be a player of the calibre of Finn, Rashid or Buttler.
Always worth having a reserve keeper on site. Were Bairstow to break a thumb an hour before the start of the Brisbane Test, you wouldn't want Buttler and Foakes a thousand miles away.
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Old 24th September 2017, 23:12   #143
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Always worth having a reserve keeper on site. Were Bairstow to break a thumb an hour before the start of the Brisbane Test, you wouldn't want Buttler and Foakes a thousand miles away.
Yeah you'd really want a squad of 15 on site for the first morning with a spare batsman, seamer, spinmer and keeper with at least one of them being a top fielder.

There's should be no reason it has to be the same 4 reserves for each game though we could always swap players around with the Lions team so that players get some game time as I don't think there's any practice games between tests and if a Lions game starts after a day or two after the test there's no reason a player or two can't take a flight out to wherever it is after the coin toss.

Can't think of any of our potential squad players who are very good fielders though so might drag Buttler around as a sub fielder for the first two tests and then let him go play in the BBL.
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Old 25th September 2017, 06:15   #144
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Yeah you'd really want a squad of 15 on site for the first morning with a spare batsman, seamer, spinmer and keeper with at least one of them being a top fielder.

There's should be no reason it has to be the same 4 reserves for each game though we could always swap players around with the Lions team so that players get some game time as I don't think there's any practice games between tests and if a Lions game starts after a day or two after the test there's no reason a player or two can't take a flight out to wherever it is after the coin toss.

Can't think of any of our potential squad players who are very good fielders though so might drag Buttler around as a sub fielder for the first two tests and then let him go play in the BBL.
Dawson is a very good fielder.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:07   #145
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Dawson is a very good fielder.
No. Just go away with that train of thought. Please.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:18   #146
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Story in the telegraph saying that ICM represented James Vince is in line for a recall. Strange that innit?
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:36   #147
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Story in the telegraph saying that ICM represented James Vince is in line for a recall. Strange that innit?
600 runs @ 35 in the CC this season. Famous for getting out in the same way every test innings and for having a test career almost as obviously too long as it is short (i.e., it was very clear very quickly that he was going to be dropped ASAP but for reasons of policy that could not be for another couple of months). His experience of abject failure may be a useful asset though.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:42   #148
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Chat on R5 yesterday is that Root wants Ballance.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:44   #149
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...Has he stopped playing FC cricket because he's not interested or because Middlesex aren't picking him?
I'd say the latter. Morgan has been rubbish at 1st class cricket for years now.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:49   #150
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Just looked it up and it appears that Morgan hasn't played f/c cricket for more than 2 years. I suspect at least in part it's because he goes to the IPL to warm the bench that means he misses the first part of the English f/c season and then plays England's limited overs matches means he isn't much available for Middlesex even if they wanted to pick him.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:51   #151
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Chat on R5 yesterday is that Root wants Ballance.
Ballance and Vince. It's like the Pakistan series never happened.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:59   #152
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Chat on R5 yesterday is that Root wants Ballance.
You sure he didn't say balance..........
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:03   #153
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Ballance and Vince. It's like the Pakistan series never happened.
Or Bangladesh..
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:25   #154
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Copied from Cricinfo liveblog

Vince's record since 2012:
2012 (Div 2) - 24.52
2013 (Div 2) - 61.16
2014 (Div 2) - 61.00
2015 (Div 1) - 28.58
2016 (Div 1) - 33.79
2016 (Tests) - 19.27
2017 (Div 1) - 34.82
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:29   #155
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Ballance and Vince. It's like the Pakistan series never happened.
If they pick any or all of Malan, Westley, Jennings and Stoneman would that be any better....?

At least Ballance started his career well even if his average has plummeted from 60s to late 30s

Vince is probably all talk, well I'd hope so, but can see why Root would want to take his yorkie chum.

Hameed : 219 runs @ 43.80
Ballance : 1498 runs @ 37.45
-------------------------------------
Robson : 336 runs @ 30.55
Compton : 775 runs @ 28.70
Hales : 573 runs @ 27.29
-------------------------------------
Jennings : 294 runs @ 24.50
Westley : 193 runs @ 24.13
Malan : 189 runs @ 23.63
Dawson : 84 runs @ 21.00
-------------------------------------
Vince : 212 runs @ 19.27
Duckett 110 runs @ 15.71

Just a few of the contenders, well players who've played before who might be added for their batting (Dawson also for bowling, but thought I may as well throw him in for good measure)

Hameed may not recover from his broken finger (?) in time. It's pretty feeble that so many haven't even averaged 25, makes the efforts of Compton, Robson and Hales look half decent.

Sure they haven't had long runs so you could argue the fergie factor, give them long enough and they'll become great. Could point at Kallis' career up to 7, 12 even 20 Tests, but the exceptions hardly define the rule. England could give a lot of them time and they'd still end up barely 'breaking even'.

There is no rule says you have to struggle for runs early career, in fact some of them have not only had the chance against windies but also plenty of second or third lives.

They also weren't playing the likes of McGrath, Warne, Saqlain Mushtaq, Mushtaq Ahmed, Shoaib Akhtar, Murali, surprisingly frequently out to Cork, Walsh, Gough, Ambrose.......... all who Kallis faced in and up to his 20th Test. They weren't bowling either, 41 wickets before facing the windies.


I'd almost be tempted to take Clarke or someone without the black cloud of failure over their head already
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Old 25th September 2017, 13:21   #156
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We're in a dismal hole. The playing XI contains several people whom no one expects to have a future in test cricket, and the rest of the squad -- as far as most of the proposals on this thread are concerned -- is composed almost exclusively of players who have been found wanting and discarded and I hope never play another test. There are lots of promising players around but no one wants them to play test cricket on the assumption that they'll be (a) cr@p and/or (b) ruined by the experience. The only decent players we've unearthed in recent years are either injured (TRJ, Hameed), or already discarded (Rashid, Jennings), or one season wonders (Woakes).
Woakes' domestic record is hardly one of a one season wonder.

Not sure who the last bowler we capped with a better domestic record would have been. Maybe someone like Kirtley or Saggers?

TRJ has a similar average but is older and has fewer wickets.
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Old 25th September 2017, 15:00   #157
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Woakes' domestic record is hardly one of a one season wonder.

Not sure who the last bowler we capped with a better domestic record would have been. Maybe someone like Kirtley or Saggers?

TRJ has a similar average but is older and has fewer wickets.
I was talking of his England test career so far. Fantastic summer in 2016 but not much else yet. Maybe Onions? Woakes's batting will buy him more time than some, and he's lucky that Stokes is already in the team to cover some of his off-days, but reasonably often bowlers who have consistent success in the CC don't transfer that into the test arena. We await developments with high hopes.
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Old 25th September 2017, 16:21   #158
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I was talking of his England test career so far. Fantastic summer in 2016 but not much else yet. Maybe Onions? Woakes's batting will buy him more time than some, and he's lucky that Stokes is already in the team to cover some of his off-days, but reasonably often bowlers who have consistent success in the CC don't transfer that into the test arena. We await developments with high hopes.
Who are you thinking of?

I'm struggling to think of many who have taken 300+ wickets at 25 or under and haven't been successful.

Onions' fc bowling average was a run and a half higher (and I don't think he was a bad test bowler - the issue with him was one of durability not ability).

Those with similar records to Woakes like Sidebottom and TRJ did OK. I think you have to go back to Mike Smith (1 test) or Tim Munton (hello Chin) to find someone with that sort of records who didn't hold their own at test level.
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Old 25th September 2017, 17:29   #159
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I think they pick the squad on Wed. don't they?

So Cook, Root, Stokes, Ali, Bairstow, Anderson and Broad are pencilled in.

.
Add Woakes and there is 8 who are nailed on for the first test.

Add in any 3 from the 3rd tier list - most likely who has a face that fits or those that are mates with the skipper.
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Old 25th September 2017, 17:35   #160
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600 runs @ 35 in the CC this season. Famous for getting out in the same way every test innings and for having a test career almost as obviously too long as it is short (i.e., it was very clear very quickly that he was going to be dropped ASAP but for reasons of policy that could not be for another couple of months). His experience of abject failure may be a useful asset though.
He looks good with his off drives, but the problem is that from what I've seen, that is virtually the only shot he can play, and it gets him out a lot too. If the selectors pick him again and his game is exactly the same, then they should be lined up and shot. Like they should have been when they recalled Ballance. And Compton.
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