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Old 2nd September 2009, 19:25   #261
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It would be a huge gamble in my opinion.
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Old 2nd September 2009, 20:32   #262
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With question marks surrounding his ability to play again he certainly shouldn't get a contract.
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It would be a huge gamble in my opinion.
I suspect it is little more complicated than we think. Flintoff was under contract to the ECB when he went under the knife. Presumably this means that the ECB (or their insurers) pay for the medical bills incured. If he isn't given another contract who then foots the bill? Does he have to or Lancashire?
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Old 2nd September 2009, 21:46   #263
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Will Monty still get a central contract or even an incremental contract given that he seems to be very much on the sidelines and that there would be the potential for Rashid to at least go on tour. Prior must be likely to get the hightest grade contract now.
Can't see any good reason to contract Monty. Agree about Prior.
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Old 2nd September 2009, 21:48   #264
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I suspect it is little more complicated than we think. Flintoff was under contract to the ECB when he went under the knife. Presumably this means that the ECB (or their insurers) pay for the medical bills incured. If he isn't given another contract who then foots the bill? Does he have to or Lancashire?
I suppose it's a case of "run, and whoever is last pays the bill".

As we know, Flintoff is unable to run, so...
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Old 2nd September 2009, 22:49   #265
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I suppose it's a case of "run, and whoever is last pays the bill".

As we know, Flintoff is unable to run, so...
The Chennai Super Kings..... it happened while he was playing for them
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Old 3rd September 2009, 02:34   #266
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I'm a little surprised by everyone's attitude here.

Do people not believe that (a) Flintoff is, assuming his surgery goes to plan, one of (i) our best limited overs batsmen and (ii) our best limited overs bowler; and (b) surely England have some sort of moral duty to look after who repeatedly put his body on the line for his country?
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Old 3rd September 2009, 02:46   #267
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I'm a little surprised by everyone's attitude here.

Do people not believe that (a) Flintoff is, assuming his surgery goes to plan, one of (i) our best limited overs batsmen and (ii) our best limited overs bowler; and (b) surely England have some sort of moral duty to look after who repeatedly put his body on the line for his country?
He will get a central contract because he is supposed to be fit in 6 months time.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 09:59   #268
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Flower doubts he will ever play for England again.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 12:46   #269
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I'm a little surprised by everyone's attitude here.

Do people not believe that (a) Flintoff is, assuming his surgery goes to plan, one of (i) our best limited overs batsmen and (ii) our best limited overs bowler; and (b) surely England have some sort of moral duty to look after who repeatedly put his body on the line for his country?
Indeed. It might be his last contract, but it's inconceivable that they won't give him one
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Old 3rd September 2009, 12:54   #270
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I'm a little surprised by everyone's attitude here.

Do people not believe that (a) Flintoff is, assuming his surgery goes to plan, one of (i) our best limited overs batsmen and (ii) our best limited overs bowler; and (b) surely England have some sort of moral duty to look after who repeatedly put his body on the line for his country?
I suppose it does depend on the medical prognosis because I'd not be contracting him if he won't be fit to play. I don't really buy the moral duty argument as he's already been well paid to play for and be available for England including on many occasions when he's actually not been fit. The contracts are, or should be, for players who might actually play, not a reward for past efforts. Having said all that, I'd definitely contract him and completely agree with your point about him being our best LOI bowler. He's certainly not our best batsman in the format, even though he'd be a valid pick, purely as a batsman.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 21:19   #271
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I suppose it does depend on the medical prognosis because I'd not be contracting him if he won't be fit to play. I don't really buy the moral duty argument as he's already been well paid to play for and be available for England including on many occasions when he's actually not been fit. The contracts are, or should be, for players who might actually play, not a reward for past efforts. Having said all that, I'd definitely contract him and completely agree with your point about him being our best LOI bowler. He's certainly not our best batsman in the format, even though he'd be a valid pick, purely as a batsman.
He is easily one of our best ODI batsmen.

The contracts were introduced to help manage the workload of the top international players and to try and prevent such injuries occurring, and then when such injuries do happen, to enable England to be in charge of the recovery process not some county (or IPL franchise).
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Old 3rd September 2009, 21:22   #272
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I don't see any point in giving him a contract until he reports back fit, then he can be given one. Look at all the tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth at Vaughan being given one last year and not playing a single game for England. As FS says, a contract isn't or shouldn't be a token of gratitude.

If people are thinking that a contract will ensure his priorities lie with England rather than the IPL, I shouldn't think that would come into it given Flintoff's sadness at the thought of never playing test cricket for England again. He has vowed to try to become the best ODI player in the world and I'm sure that if he regains his fitness England will be his priority. But no contract unless he plays, that's my view. I think his various sponsorship deals should tide him over in the meantime.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 21:27   #273
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I don't see any point in giving him a contract until he reports back fit, then he can be given one. Look at all the tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth at Vaughan being given one last year and not playing a single game for England. As FS says, a contract isn't or shouldn't be a token of gratitude.

If people are thinking that a contract will ensure his priorities lie with England rather than the IPL, I shouldn't think that would come into it given Flintoff's sadness at the thought of never playing test cricket for England again. He has vowed to try to become the best ODI player in the world and I'm sure that if he regains his fitness England will be his priority. But no contract unless he plays, that's my view. I think his various sponsorship deals should tide him over in the meantime.
The idea of giving him a central contract is so he can report back fit.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 21:40   #274
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He is easily one of our best ODI batsmen.
Partly because the others aren't all that great, I agree. He certainly isn't our best ODI batsman though. Averaging 32 at 88.8 is okay but hardly wonderful and averages of 14.6, 22.8, 50.2 and 1.5 (from only 2 innings, admittedly) in the last 4 years don't suggest a world beater.

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The contracts were introduced to help manage the workload of the top international players and to try and prevent such injuries occurring, and then when such injuries do happen, to enable England to be in charge of the recovery process not some county (or IPL franchise).
Of course and they've largely been a success too.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 21:47   #275
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I'm a little surprised by everyone's attitude here.

Do people not believe that (a) Flintoff is, assuming his surgery goes to plan, one of (i) our best limited overs batsmen and (ii) our best limited overs bowler; and (b) surely England have some sort of moral duty to look after who repeatedly put his body on the line for his country?
i. No. Do you? Really?
ii. Yes.
iii. Definitely not. Perhaps if he had passed up the IPL opportunity in favour or staying fit for the Ashes I would have felt different.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 21:49   #276
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The idea of giving him a central contract is so he can report back fit for IPL duty.
You didn't finish your sentence...
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Old 3rd September 2009, 22:00   #277
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i. No. Do you? Really?
ii. Yes.
iii. Definitely not. Perhaps if he had passed up the IPL opportunity in favour or staying fit for the Ashes I would have felt different.
i Yes. He's second to Capey, but after that he's one of the few batsmen who can single-handedly win an ODI.

b. If he hadn't have repeatedly bowled himself into the ground for England he'd be fit and able to take the IPL ruppees.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 22:14   #278
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Flintoff has given his all for England when with the team and playing, but his activities away from cricket have to be taken into account when considering his total professionalism. Michael Vaughan has said that he let Flintoff more or less have his own way rather than apply the same discipline to him as the others. We have it on various authorities that Flintoff is not good at personal organisation. When recovering from operations he has indeed put in lots of work to get himself fit, with his trainer Dave Roberts running in the Lancashire hills etc and you have to feel for him with what he has put himself through. But he might have helped himself more if he had adopted the lifestyle of a dedicated professional, particularly when he is so injury prone.

It's difficult for him away from the team but it's not up to England to get him fit, it's really down to himself given his avowed ambition.

In reply to Cesar, I honestly think that Flintoff's priorities are with England rather than the IPL. He's got his contract with the IPL for next year but let's face it he didn't actually do very well there.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 22:17   #279
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He did okay financially but that's a frivolous quibble.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 22:21   #280
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Flintoff has given his all for England when with the team and playing, but his activities away from cricket have to be taken into account when considering his total professionalism. Michael Vaughan has said that he let Flintoff more or less have his own way rather than apply the same discipline to him as the others. We have it on various authorities that Flintoff is not good at personal organisation. When recovering from operations he has indeed put in lots of work to get himself fit, with his trainer Dave Roberts running in the Lancashire hills etc and you have to feel for him with what he has put himself through. But he might have helped himself more if he had adopted the lifestyle of a dedicated professional, particularly when he is so injury prone.

It's difficult for him away from the team but it's not up to England to get him fit, it's really down to himself given his avowed ambition.

In reply to Cesar, I honestly think that Flintoff's priorities are with England rather than the IPL. He's got his contract with the IPL for next year but let's face it he didn't actually do very well there.
He'd be pretty mad if they were wouldnt he?.
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