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Old 22nd July 2015, 09:40   #301
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Test match average 2.5 ...
From a single Test on a train crash of a tour, where the selectors came up with some mentalist idea he could be the next Shane Warne...
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Old 22nd July 2015, 09:59   #302
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From a single Test on a train crash of a tour, where the selectors came up with some mentalist idea he could be the next Shane Warne...
Swann has said many times since he quit that he should be our spin bowler. Bizarre. My main recollection of his bowling is James foster hitting him for about 30 to win a one day match. I can't remember where or when but I am sure I remember him smashing him backward of square on leg side over and over again.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 11:24   #303
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From a single Test on a train crash of a tour, where the selectors came up with some mentalist idea he could be the next Shane Warne...
I'm not sure the selectors had Warne in mind, but I guess they thought that Borthwick was their second best available spin bowler at the point that they picked him (i.e., when Swann retired). There are certainly sample size issues, but that's primarily because immediately after that one test, he was dropped for Moeen Ali, whose understudy seems now to be Adil Rashid. In any case, I daresay Borthwick's improved, but certainly his batting didn't impress on that occasion. Is he as good a batsman as Stoneman, do you think?
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Old 22nd July 2015, 11:51   #304
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I'm not sure the selectors had Warne in mind, but I guess they thought that Borthwick was their second best available spin bowler at the point that they picked him (i.e., when Swann retired). There are certainly sample size issues, but that's primarily because immediately after that one test, he was dropped for Moeen Ali, whose understudy seems now to be Adil Rashid. In any case, I daresay Borthwick's improved, but certainly his batting didn't impress on that occasion. Is he as good a batsman as Stoneman, do you think?
Stoneman is an niteresting one. This might just be a hunch but i get the impression it can often be a case of all or nothing with him. Certainly though his record in recent years has been superior to that of his career average and Chester le Street should be accounted when analysing his credentials, but i'd still suggest he's myabe a level below.

Borthwick being picked in that role i still find to be one of the most baffling decisions of a bewildering tour. It's almost worth forgetting Borthwick's spin at judging him as what he currently is, a top order batsmen whose bowling is comparable maybe to that of Steve Smith.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 12:00   #305
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Test match average 2.5 ...
Yes, but he averages 20.5 with the ball, at a strike rate of 19.5. He is BETTER than Warne.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 12:07   #306
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Stoneman is an niteresting one. This might just be a hunch but i get the impression it can often be a case of all or nothing with him. Certainly though his record in recent years has been superior to that of his career average and Chester le Street should be accounted when analysing his credentials, but i'd still suggest he's myabe a level below.

Borthwick being picked in that role i still find to be one of the most baffling decisions of a bewildering tour. It's almost worth forgetting Borthwick's spin at judging him as what he currently is, a top order batsmen whose bowling is comparable maybe to that of Steve Smith.
Thanks for that about Stoneman. I would be interested to hear any other opinions.

I agree that the Borthwick pick was a bit strange, but (and especially in conjunction with the mixed messages about Panesar, with some journos reporting that he was injured and others that he'd been dropped) I see it as the first move in a strange policy that's been fairly evident ever since -- that is, that England's spinner has to be someone who can bat as well as or almost as well as a specialist batsman can.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 12:46   #307
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Test match average 2.5 ...
Probably not much worse than Ian Bells average this year...
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Old 24th July 2015, 22:13   #308
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Test match average 2.5 ...
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Yes, but he averages 20.5 with the ball, at a strike rate of 19.5. He is BETTER than Warne.
Just goes to show you can't judge him after one Test. If he was given an extended run in the side I imagine he would average around 40 with the ball and 30 with the bat. He has played well this season and I wouldn't be surprised if he was taken to the UAE.
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Old 25th July 2015, 08:52   #309
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Just goes to show you can't judge him after one Test. If he was given an extended run in the side I imagine he would average around 40 with the ball and 30 with the bat. He has played well this season and I wouldn't be surprised if he was taken to the UAE.
We want our bowlers to average less than that and our batsmen to average more than that. And the latest fad for bits and pieces players looks to be nearly over to me. I would be surprised if he was taken to the UAE.
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Old 25th July 2015, 11:07   #310
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We want our bowlers to average less than that and our batsmen to average more than that. And the latest fad for bits and pieces players looks to be nearly over to me. I would be surprised if he was taken to the UAE.
Also based on his recent bowling it would be a minor miracle if he averaged anything like as well as 40 with the ball. He's playing as a specialist batsman and part time spinner at present. He'd be cannon fodder at international level. Rashid is a far better option and still one England has real reservations about, with probably some reason.
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Old 25th July 2015, 12:29   #311
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We want our bowlers to average less than that and our batsmen to average more than that. And the latest fad for bits and pieces players looks to be nearly over to me. I would be surprised if he was taken to the UAE.
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Also based on his recent bowling it would be a minor miracle if he averaged anything like as well as 40 with the ball. He's playing as a specialist batsman and part time spinner at present. He'd be cannon fodder at international level. Rashid is a far better option and still one England has real reservations about, with probably some reason.
Agree with both of these. I think Borthwick is better suited to ODI cricket, especially in Asia where England will want as many spin options as possible. I don't think he's a better bowler or batsmen than Moeen.
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Old 26th July 2015, 14:43   #312
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Agree with both of these. I think Borthwick is better suited to ODI cricket, especially in Asia where England will want as many spin options as possible. I don't think he's a better bowler or batsmen than Moeen.
Not sure his batting is terribly ODI suitable though, which again makes him a pretty unlikely selection. I suppose if one of Ali and Rashid weren't available and Tredwell continues to be regarded as past rather than future, he might enter the frame. Doubt it though.
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Old 27th July 2015, 12:11   #313
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Borthwick's one day batting is so good he often bats down at nine or not at all for Durham. Don't think you need to go any further than that.
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Old 30th July 2015, 17:28   #314
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With Finn coming back on form I wonder if serious consideration will be given to not take Jimmy to the UAE and save him for the South Africa tour.
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Old 30th July 2015, 17:45   #315
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Perhaps, but hopefully the selectors will take into account the quality of the opposition batting before making such a decision.
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Old 31st July 2015, 10:11   #316
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Anderson out of Trent Bridge test match. Who on earth replaces him? A horses for courses selection or just bring Wood back first change and open with Finn and Broad. Gutted for him as he could now have played his last ashes test match.
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Old 31st July 2015, 10:29   #317
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Missing his first test since 2011. He's had a few good years!
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Old 31st July 2015, 10:32   #318
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37 consecutive test matches. I bet he was quite glad he missed the debacle in the West Indies in hindsight.
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Old 31st July 2015, 10:34   #319
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Anderson out of Trent Bridge test match. Who on earth replaces him? A horses for courses selection or just bring Wood back first change and open with Finn and Broad. Gutted for him as he could now have played his last ashes test match.
I don't know, we must be due another Ashes series in six months' time surely. The thing is with Jimmy he looks just as lithe and fit as he did 10 years ago so there may be plenty left in the tank. I assume if Wood is fit he will play but I'd love to see Footitt get a Test match, just because it's such an unlikely story, and he can really bowl. Otherwise there's Plunkett. Plenty of options.
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Old 31st July 2015, 12:42   #320
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Trent Bridge conditions would suit Rushworth.
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