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Old 2nd May 2015, 21:26   #1081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDogg16 View Post
How dare people say positive things about Cook.
It was more that they were positive things that sounded like a load of guff.
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Old 3rd May 2015, 03:43   #1082
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Originally Posted by CDogg16 View Post
Why is it a straw man?
I'll just quote FS here

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Find someone who's been trying to have it both ways and put it to them.
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Old 3rd May 2015, 19:33   #1083
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I'll just quote FS here
I'm not putting anything to anyone. I'm just saying that I think those who criticise Cook are wrong.
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Old 3rd May 2015, 20:17   #1084
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I'm not putting anything to anyone. I'm just saying that I think those who criticise Cook are wrong.
Why are they wrong? He's not been either a good batsman or captain in the last 18 months has he?
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Old 4th May 2015, 09:00   #1085
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England did beat India, but I think they beat themselves as much as Cook or his captaincy did. Prior to that we went eight Tests without a win under Cook

Fortunately for him his batting as captain is 2478 runs @ 45.89, decent enough against the sides other than windies and Bangladesh, but that's because he's averaging 66.15 vs India which makes up for 26.15 vs Australia and 19.50 vs Sri Lanka


Despite many counting the innings/Tests since his last hundred, he has scored EIGHT in 31 Tests as captain. But that is split only against India (3), New Zealand (2), West Indies (1) and Bangladesh (2)



His record as captain is ok W13 D9 L9, against Australia, India and Sri Lanka only that reads W8 D5 L8. As for turning Tests around :

1st innings leads

0-74 runs : P6 W1 D2 L3
75+ runs : P14 W10 D3 L1

1st innings deficits

0-74 runs : P2 W2 D0 L0
75+ runs : P9 W0 D4 L5

The two turned around games were both against Australia, deficits of 65 and 32 runs including that game where Agar scored 98. England posted 330+ in 2nd innings both times, Australia narrowly missed out on reaching a target of 311 (Agar Test, aussies 296 all out) and a bit further adrift in making 224 chasing 299

The four matches lost when ahead on 1st innings, and let's not forget this is four losses out of nine total :

vs AUS : 51 ahead on 1st innings, bowled out for 179 2nd innings and the aussies knocked off the 231 run target for only 2 wickets lost with Broad finishing 0/58 off 10 overs, Stokes 1/50 off 12, Bresnan 0/48 off 7 and Panesar 1/41 off 7.5 overs.

vs SRL : 108 ahead on 1st innings, conceded 457 in 2nd innings and were 57/5 chasing 350 to win, eventually falling 101 runs short of the target

vs IND : 24 ahead on 1st innings, conceded 342 2nd innings and collapsed to 72/4 before reaching 173/4 and losing the last 6 wickets for 50 runs and falling short of the 319 target.

vs WIN : 68 ahead on 1st innings, all out for 123 2nd innings and despite having windies 80/4 they reached their target of 192 for the loss of one more wicket.


Never good to lose, worse having lead by more than 50 runs, worse still to lose nearly as often having led by 50+ runs (4x) as when trailing by 100+ runs (5x) and again having saved as many trailing by 100+ runs (4x) as lost when leading by 50+ runs.
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Old 4th May 2015, 11:54   #1086
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Why are they wrong? He's not been either a good batsman or captain in the last 18 months has he?
He's been a good batsman since the India series.
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Old 4th May 2015, 11:57   #1087
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He's been a good batsman since the India series.
Not defending his captaincy record then?
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Old 4th May 2015, 12:11   #1088
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Not defending his captaincy record then?
I don't think it's as bad as some say. Post Ashes we lost to Sri Lanka at home which was poor, but we turned it around against India which suggests the players are playing for him. This series against the Windies I've liked some of his fields, and I don't really think that you can blame a batting collapse on him.

That said, it still results to one win in three winnable series.
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Old 4th May 2015, 15:03   #1089
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I have personally felt Cook is at his best as a captain when he scores runs. Since I am basing this not really on facts and based on what I see on TV, it could be utter tosh. The fact remains that he doesn't seem very inspirational when things aren't happening much on field.
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Old 4th May 2015, 15:11   #1090
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Given that England's results are being held against Moores, it seems a bit mean to hold them against Cook as well. I'm not sure one can really have it both ways. I mean, if either of them are as bad as some people say they are, then the other one would have to be superman to get even half-decent results.
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Old 4th May 2015, 15:13   #1091
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Given that England's results are being held against Moores, it seems a bit mean to hold them against Cook as well. I'm not sure one can really have it both ways. I mean, if either of them are as bad as some people say they are, then the other one would have to be superman to get even half-decent results.
Well said. You can't put all the blame on captains and coaches. Individual players have to take some of the blame as well.
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Old 4th May 2015, 15:15   #1092
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Given that England's results are being held against Moores, it seems a bit mean to hold them against Cook as well. I'm not sure one can really have it both ways. I mean, if either of them are as bad as some people say they are, then the other one would have to be superman to get even half-decent results.
I think they are fine when the going's good but seem a bit clueless when things don't go according to plan. They aren't terrible but not really the greatest strategists/motivators.
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Old 4th May 2015, 16:21   #1093
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I have personally felt Cook is at his best as a captain when he scores runs. Since I am basing this not really on facts and based on what I see on TV, it could be utter tosh. The fact remains that he doesn't seem very inspirational when things aren't happening much on field.
This is exactly the case, CM. Cook's captaincy started on a tour in which he made a huge number of runs including 3 centuries and was adjudged man of the series. That was when England beat India on home soil for the first time for a couple of decades. And as a prolific run maker from the start of his test career, one could have imagined that as long as he was laying platforms for big innings totals, helping England win matches through scoreboard pressure, his lesser skills as tactician and leader in the field would not matter too much. But after a prolonged run drought, the other aspects of his captaincy came to the fore.
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Old 5th May 2015, 03:58   #1094
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Geoffrey Boycott:

Every time Alastair Cook opens his mouth, he sticks his foot in it. We lose a Test and fail to win a series, and he blames Colin Graves.

Apparently, the next chairman of the England and Wales Cricket Board saying before the tour began that we should beat a “mediocre West Indies team” or there should be an inquiry, stirred the West Indies to play above themselves.

When England won in Grenada, there was no mention of the Graves remarks and how they had affected the West Indies players, but as soon as Cook’s men lost in Barbados it was Graves’s fault.

Graves is going to be his new boss on May 15, yet it is unbelievable that Cook talks disrespectfully about him. Alastair is so up his own a---, he thinks he is untouchable as England captain and the only guy who can do the job.

When he was England one‑day captain, they had a shocking record, a poor losing tour of Sri Lanka and he could not score a run. Yet when the selectors finally had to put him out of his misery, and took the captaincy off him, he was so miffed that he was still saying he was the best man for the job.

At the start of this summer, in Abu Dhabi, playing for MCC v Yorkshire, he was still having a go at the selectors for sacking him as the one‑day captain, saying he would have made a difference at the World Cup with his experience. Really? Cook acts as if he is the best captain England have ever had, comparable with FS Jackson, Douglas Jardine, Len Hutton, Ray Illingworth and Michael Vaughan. He is living in cloud-cuckoo land about his captaincy ability.

Alastair is a top-class batsman with an excellent record, but his tactical awareness and cricketing nous do not compare with the great England captains.

On tour, he and Peter Moores pick the teams, and as captain he gets the XI he wants. His selection of Jonathan Trott, non‑selection of Adam Lyth, stubbornness to go with four seamers and not two spinners on dry surfaces in the Caribbean, were huge mistakes. During the game, for example, Root dropped a catch at third slip when their best slip fielder, Chris Jordan, was at cover. Root opened the bowling after tea instead of the senior spinner Moeen Ali, and immediately got hit for six.

To me their cricket judgment is flawed. But sorry, I cannot say that, because they never make mistakes. Cook says they “don’t worry about external stuff” anymore, with reference to views and ideas in the media by us ex-players. Even Moores said there was “no need to have an inquiry” about the drawn series.

Moores and Cook will carry on voicing platitudes, blaming anyone or anything that comes to mind to keep their jobs. They now have a siege mentality, believing everyone is against and out to get them. Not true. A lot of us ex-players want England to win, to play better, to have better selections, and some of us do not believe you and Peter are the best men to take our cricket team forward.

Can so many of us all be wrong? It’s not personal, just a professional view. You are both cautious, careful, conservative and stubborn individuals. It is all attritional cricket, with a dependency on James Anderson. It is not sustainable. There is no imagination or risk-taking, and England need a breath of fresh ideas.

It has been suggested in the media that in the next two weeks Andrew Strauss will be appointed as the new director of English cricket. If that is the best that Tom Harrison, the chief executive, can come up with, God help us. Why? Because Cook calls him “Straussy”, they opened the innings together for a long time, are best mates, shared dressing rooms.

So Cook will be safe and captain for ever, as will some other players Strauss played alongside. He is too close to so many of the current players to take an objective view. And if his comments on air about Kevin Pietersen last year are anything to go by, there is not a cat in hell’s chance of him returning.

So don’t hold your breath for the promised changes, as we will be swapping one nice lad – Paul Downton – for another in Strauss.

The more the England and Wales Cricket Board changes, the more it stays the same.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cri...d-captain.html
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Old 5th May 2015, 07:20   #1095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draexem View Post
Geoffrey Boycott:

Every time Alastair Cook opens his mouth, he sticks his foot in it. We lose a Test and fail to win a series, and he blames Colin Graves.

Apparently, the next chairman of the England and Wales Cricket Board saying before the tour began that we should beat a “mediocre West Indies team” or there should be an inquiry, stirred the West Indies to play above themselves.

When England won in Grenada, there was no mention of the Graves remarks and how they had affected the West Indies players, but as soon as Cook’s men lost in Barbados it was Graves’s fault.

Graves is going to be his new boss on May 15, yet it is unbelievable that Cook talks disrespectfully about him. Alastair is so up his own a---, he thinks he is untouchable as England captain and the only guy who can do the job.

When he was England one‑day captain, they had a shocking record, a poor losing tour of Sri Lanka and he could not score a run. Yet when the selectors finally had to put him out of his misery, and took the captaincy off him, he was so miffed that he was still saying he was the best man for the job.

At the start of this summer, in Abu Dhabi, playing for MCC v Yorkshire, he was still having a go at the selectors for sacking him as the one‑day captain, saying he would have made a difference at the World Cup with his experience. Really? Cook acts as if he is the best captain England have ever had, comparable with FS Jackson, Douglas Jardine, Len Hutton, Ray Illingworth and Michael Vaughan. He is living in cloud-cuckoo land about his captaincy ability.

Alastair is a top-class batsman with an excellent record, but his tactical awareness and cricketing nous do not compare with the great England captains.

On tour, he and Peter Moores pick the teams, and as captain he gets the XI he wants. His selection of Jonathan Trott, non‑selection of Adam Lyth, stubbornness to go with four seamers and not two spinners on dry surfaces in the Caribbean, were huge mistakes. During the game, for example, Root dropped a catch at third slip when their best slip fielder, Chris Jordan, was at cover. Root opened the bowling after tea instead of the senior spinner Moeen Ali, and immediately got hit for six.

To me their cricket judgment is flawed. But sorry, I cannot say that, because they never make mistakes. Cook says they “don’t worry about external stuff” anymore, with reference to views and ideas in the media by us ex-players. Even Moores said there was “no need to have an inquiry” about the drawn series.

Moores and Cook will carry on voicing platitudes, blaming anyone or anything that comes to mind to keep their jobs. They now have a siege mentality, believing everyone is against and out to get them. Not true. A lot of us ex-players want England to win, to play better, to have better selections, and some of us do not believe you and Peter are the best men to take our cricket team forward.

Can so many of us all be wrong? It’s not personal, just a professional view. You are both cautious, careful, conservative and stubborn individuals. It is all attritional cricket, with a dependency on James Anderson. It is not sustainable. There is no imagination or risk-taking, and England need a breath of fresh ideas.

It has been suggested in the media that in the next two weeks Andrew Strauss will be appointed as the new director of English cricket. If that is the best that Tom Harrison, the chief executive, can come up with, God help us. Why? Because Cook calls him “Straussy”, they opened the innings together for a long time, are best mates, shared dressing rooms.

So Cook will be safe and captain for ever, as will some other players Strauss played alongside. He is too close to so many of the current players to take an objective view. And if his comments on air about Kevin Pietersen last year are anything to go by, there is not a cat in hell’s chance of him returning.

So don’t hold your breath for the promised changes, as we will be swapping one nice lad – Paul Downton – for another in Strauss.

The more the England and Wales Cricket Board changes, the more it stays the same.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cri...d-captain.html
I hate to admit it but I agree with everything Boycott says there.
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Old 5th May 2015, 08:53   #1096
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He's bang on the money. Quite a frank article even by Boycs' standards.
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Old 5th May 2015, 09:08   #1097
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Geoffrey Boycott:...
The more the England and Wales Cricket Board changes, the more it stays the same.
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose, or...

Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.
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Old 5th May 2015, 10:45   #1098
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It's hard to disagree with what he says about Cook. Less so Moores, whose role and attitude is a bit more mysterious as he doesn't do as much mouthing off -- hence the lumping together of Moores and Cook as if they are one decision-making entity. But I think it's poor to have a go at Strauss as DoC when he hasn't been appointed yet and there's no reliable way of knowing what he would be like in that role -- or even, what the role really is. On that matter Geoffrey and everyone else should really wait and see. Of course like many others he will have prejudices based on his previous judgements of Strauss in other roles, but it's careless to pretend that those prejudices are worth voicing at this stage -- especially as almost everyone who hears this from Boycott will conclude that he's just offended that it doesn't look as if the Yorkshire candidate will get this particular job.
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Old 5th May 2015, 11:18   #1099
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It's hard to disagree with what he says about Cook. Less so Moores, whose role and attitude is a bit more mysterious as he doesn't do as much mouthing off -- hence the lumping together of Moores and Cook as if they are one decision-making entity. But I think it's poor to have a go at Strauss as DoC when he hasn't been appointed yet and there's no reliable way of knowing what he would be like in that role -- or even, what the role really is. On that matter Geoffrey and everyone else should really wait and see. Of course like many others he will have prejudices based on his previous judgements of Strauss in other roles, but it's careless to pretend that those prejudices are worth voicing at this stage -- especially as almost everyone who hears this from Boycott will conclude that he's just offended that it doesn't look as if the Yorkshire candidate will get this particular job.
Fair enough mostly and I've discussed elsewhere how it's a bit difficult to know exactly what effect Moores is having. It's entirely reasonable to look at team selection, tactics, approach and results as a joint responsibility of Cook and Moores and share credit or blame between them, however. They do work together, as Boycs says. Without being inside the camp knowing exactly who does what and to what effect is impossible (and people in the camp may not really know either, which would in itself be a bit damning).

I see what you mean about Strauss and you're right that Boycs is prejudging this one but it's pretty hard not to see him as another recent old boy appointment without much boat rocking potential. I hope he proves us wrong.
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Old 5th May 2015, 11:44   #1100
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G Smith of Saffers had 8 caps and was 22 yo when made captain.

J Root, 24 caps, 24 yo.

English way will be to let Cook be humiliated over the summer and sparing Root the Ashes.
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