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Old 5th March 2009, 17:37   #221
slowest_bowler
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There are quite a lot of people who seem to know what Patel's "attitude" is. He may be failing to work as hard on his fitness as he should, or he may not. How are any of us in a position to judge that? And there could be physiological or psychological reasons for his apparent inability to shed weight.

When I was younger I was unable to put on weight, despite eating for about three. Now I find it hard to lose my middle aged spread, despite eating much less and exercising about as much. I hope the people who have told him off for being podgy have considered the possibility that he may be trying to lose weight, and I also hope that they are not overestimating the importance of being lean. Patel scores quickly and does plenty of work for Notts as batsman, rather more than occasional bowler, and more than adequate fielder.

I hope he sorts out his fitness and, for his sake, loses weight, but I really don't see why it is such an issue when he has reached his current level despite being a bit porky. Rob Key was fatter when he played for England wasn't he?
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Old 5th March 2009, 17:40   #222
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Originally Posted by square leg umpire View Post
All this if ludicrous. Would WG Grace, Colin Milburn or Mike Gatting get a game for England these days? What about David Boon, Darren Lehman or Inzy. It seems diet sheets have become more important than hundreds or 5 fors. You can see why the England team is in such strife if calories count for more than class. A player may be crap but by god he's fit. Get him in the team.
but its surely about improving/ getting an edge - it is surely undeniable that Patel would improve as a player if he lost weight and got fitter (hes not a darts player after all) - it would surely enable him to bat & bowl longer and become less error-prone in the field. yes a fat Patel is a better prospect than a mediocre thin player but the point is that a thin Patel is a better player than a fat Patel
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Old 5th March 2009, 17:57   #223
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Originally Posted by slowest_bowler View Post
There are quite a lot of people who seem to know what Patel's "attitude" is. He may be failing to work as hard on his fitness as he should, or he may not. How are any of us in a position to judge that?
I think most people are taking their position from the ECB/England management/Notts who have monitored his fitness. I think they are in an excellent position to judge it and they say that he is falling short of the required standard.

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And there could be physiological or psychological reasons for his apparent inability to shed weight.

I hope he sorts out his fitness and, for his sake, loses weight, but I really don't see why it is such an issue when he has reached his current level despite being a bit porky. Rob Key was fatter when he played for England wasn't he?
The issue is fitness, not fatness. Fatness is though an indicator that his fitness isn't up to scratch. I'm appalled to think that you are willing to accept a player as he is and not encourage them to better themselves. That way lies mediocrity.
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Old 5th March 2009, 18:25   #224
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The issue is fitness, not fatness. Fatness is though an indicator that his fitness isn't up to scratch. I'm appalled to think that you are willing to accept a player as he is and not encourage them to better themselves. That way lies mediocrity.
By bettering himself he should learn to make more runs and take more wickets, not aim for the dieter of the year award.
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Old 5th March 2009, 18:30   #225
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
I think most people are taking their position from the ECB/England management/Notts who have monitored his fitness. I think they are in an excellent position to judge it and they say that he is falling short of the required standard.
They can easily judge whether he meets the fitness levels they stipulate. It is far harder to judge a player's attitude, and I am not totally convinced that they have got this right; I certainly don't think that anyone can reasonably do that at a distance.

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The issue is fitness, not fatness. Fatness is though an indicator that his fitness isn't up to scratch. I'm appalled to think that you are willing to accept a player as he is and not encourage them to better themselves. That way lies mediocrity.
Results are all in cricket - if a player is delivering the goods, it doesn't really matter how (cheating apart). So far Patel has delivered promising performances at all levels at which he has played. If he had been given a chance to perform as a batsman in ODIs and/or in Tests and had been mediocre, I would have no problem at all with him being dropped and told what he had to do to be considered for reselection. I am rather concerned that he is expected to meet some arbitrary level of "fitness", and has been dropped from a squad because of a secondary consideration.
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Old 5th March 2009, 18:39   #226
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They can easily judge whether he meets the fitness levels they stipulate. It is far harder to judge a player's attitude, and I am not totally convinced that they have got this right; I certainly don't think that anyone can reasonably do that at a distance.
That is a very good point: it must be hard to judge from a distance. Are you in NZ with the Lions?

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Results are all in cricket - if a player is delivering the goods, it doesn't really matter how (cheating apart). So far Patel has delivered promising performances at all levels at which he has played. If he had been given a chance to perform as a batsman in ODIs and/or in Tests and had been mediocre, I would have no problem at all with him being dropped and told what he had to do to be considered for reselection. I am rather concerned that he is expected to meet some arbitrary level of "fitness", and has been dropped from a squad because of a secondary consideration.
Well, we'll have to disagree. He's been relegated to the Lions and hopefully he'll come out of it stronger (in every sense).
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Old 5th March 2009, 19:20   #227
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I hope tomorrow somebody asks Sir Ian about this and enjoy the fireworks. The trouble with this situation is that failure on the pitch exposes the management to ridicule when they get involved in extraneous things like this.
Had England been successful this would be taken as an example of an efficient machine at work. Concentrating on diet sheets when the core disciplines need seeing to gives of a misplaced sense of priorities .
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Old 5th March 2009, 19:29   #228
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I hope tomorrow somebody asks Sir Ian about this and enjoy the fireworks. The trouble with this situation is that failure on the pitch exposes the management to ridicule when they get involved in extraneous things like this.
Had England been successful this would be taken as an example of an efficient machine at work. Concentrating on diet sheets when the core disciplines need seeing to gives of a misplaced sense of priorities .
but surely an unwillingness (like everyone else on this thread i am speculating) to improve fitness when asked by both your country and your national team shows a lack of discipline? and i think it is discipline and structure that england are lacking at present. i think its terrible if england players like harmison and bell are turning up to tours out of shape. it shows a real lack of commitment to your job. patel has probably become the fall guy for their failings (although both are also now beginning to suffer the consequences).

didn't the aussies pretty much consign mark cosgrove to the international scrap heap due to a lack of fitness? i hope that the patel situation is sorted out because whilst the aussies can do without cosgrove, i am not sure we can do without someone of patel's ability.
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Old 5th March 2009, 19:39   #229
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Here we go and let's not forget that until recently,Australia were by far and away the best side in the world and generally are good at sports:

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Training Diet
Elite cricketers can have a busy training schedule with multiple sessions throughout the day. The intensity of sessions can range from low to very high, depending on the training goals of that session. Cricketers therefore need to focus on nutrient-dense foods such as cereals, fruit, vegetables, low-fat dairy products, lean meat/poultry/fish or vegetarian alternatives. The timing of meals also needs to be well planned to coincide with recovery between sessions. And on heavier training days, remember to include extra snacks to fuel the extra training load.

Cricket can involve long hours of low intensity activity and players can often find themselves gaining unwanted weight, particularly when enjoying the social aspects of cricket. Cricketers wanting to lose body fat need to assess their training load and may need to include extra aerobic exercise in addition to scheduled training sessions. Dietary intake also needs to be considered as fat and alcohol intakes are common nutrition issues in cricket that need to be addressed.
http://www.sportsdietitians.com.au/w...21-cricket.asp

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Body Fat Levels
Unless regular conditioning sessions are included in training, cricket can involve long hours of low intensity activity. Players can often find themselves gaining unwanted weight, particularly when enjoying the social side of cricket. Cricketers wanting to lose body fat need to assess their training load. It may be necessary to undertake some aerobic activity in addition to scheduled training sessions. Long-term changes need to be made to food intake. Key areas to target are fat and alcohol intake.
http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrit...sports/cricket
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Old 5th March 2009, 19:51   #230
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I'm appalled to think that you are willing to accept a player as he is and not encourage them to better themselves. That way lies mediocrity.
Interestingly, hasn't that been the 'England way' of the past three years?
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Old 5th March 2009, 20:01   #231
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Guess what? Derek Pringle can't see a problem because his fitness doesn't affect his bowling or his ability to score runs. He's living in the past, the demands of international cricket are greater now and bowling your overs and jogging through for your runs are not enough these days.
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Old 5th March 2009, 20:43   #232
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Wasnt Darren Lehman a similar shape .How amny tests would he have played if he had been English
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Old 5th March 2009, 20:48   #233
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ah yes but Lehmann was not as successful and had as many appearances on the international scene as his talent suggested - so perhaps it demonstrates the point of fitness being important
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Old 5th March 2009, 20:56   #234
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Wasnt Darren Lehman a similar shape .How amny tests would he have played if he had been English
probably over 100 as he was considerably better than any of the alternatives at most points throughout his career
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Old 5th March 2009, 20:57   #235
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I hope tomorrow somebody asks Sir Ian about this and enjoy the fireworks.
There will certainly be a lot of hot air, most of it blasting out of Botham's rear end.

I'm not sure it's a bad idea to ask Patel, at a young age, to try and make the most of his talents. To show the application and dedication that will make him as good a player as he possibly can be. Whilst being fitter will certainly help his game it's more about displaying the discipline and application that has been lacking as he first failed a fitness test, then turned up on tour even more unfit.

However, if he is scoring hatfuls of runs for Notts, even without becoming fitter, and is therefore one of the best 6 (or 5) batsmen available, he should play, fat or not, because to do otherwise would be to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Botham never showed the requisite dedication to lifestyle and fitness that would have made the most of his talents because he never had to, if Patel's that good, then his ability should be the only consideration, it would just be nice if he could make the most of himself.
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Old 5th March 2009, 21:04   #236
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This might be interesting http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cri...delivery-.html
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Old 5th March 2009, 21:08   #237
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Cricket fit.
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Then one day it happened, she cut her hair and I stopped loving her.

Self defence is not simply about punching someone repeatedly in the face until they're unconscious, is it?

She took all I had and then she fed me dirt.
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Old 5th March 2009, 21:09   #238
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They missed off Ian Austin from their list!
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Old 5th March 2009, 21:09   #239
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They missed off Ian Austin from their list!
That's because as well as being fat, he was ****.
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Then one day it happened, she cut her hair and I stopped loving her.

Self defence is not simply about punching someone repeatedly in the face until they're unconscious, is it?

She took all I had and then she fed me dirt.
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Old 5th March 2009, 21:10   #240
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He played ODIs for England!
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