Cricket 24/7  

Welcome to the Cricket 24/7.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. There are also more forums available to members, such as the Lounge - where members chat about just about anything under the sun except cricket!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   Cricket 24/7 > Cricket Discussion Forums > England
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar Casino Articles Terms of Use Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5th March 2009, 21:11   #241
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Druid Nathan Barley View Post
There will certainly be a lot of hot air, most of it blasting out of Botham's rear end.

I'm not sure it's a bad idea to ask Patel, at a young age, to try and make the most of his talents. To show the application and dedication that will make him as good a player as he possibly can be. Whilst being fitter will certainly help his game it's more about displaying the discipline and application that has been lacking as he first failed a fitness test, then turned up on tour even more unfit.

However, if he is scoring hatfuls of runs for Notts, even without becoming fitter, and is therefore one of the best 6 (or 5) batsmen available, he should play, fat or not, because to do otherwise would be to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Botham never showed the requisite dedication to lifestyle and fitness that would have made the most of his talents because he never had to, if Patel's that good, then his ability should be the only consideration, it would just be nice if he could make the most of himself.
Exactly.
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2009, 21:13   #242
High Druid Nathan Barley
Posting God
 
High Druid Nathan Barley's Avatar
Don't look at me with those freak show eyes
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shrewsbury
Team(s): Essex, Southend
Age: 42
Posts: 12,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Maggie View Post
He played ODIs for England!
As an argument for a player not being ****, that's not too great. I could do a list, and I'm sure you could too!
__________________
Then one day it happened, she cut her hair and I stopped loving her.

Self defence is not simply about punching someone repeatedly in the face until they're unconscious, is it?

She took all I had and then she fed me dirt.
High Druid Nathan Barley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2009, 21:13   #243
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Maggie View Post
He played ODIs for England!
That doesn't mean he isn't ****.

geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2009, 21:16   #244
Minor Maggie
Buttleresque
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Lancashire, England
Posts: 26,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
That doesn't mean he isn't ****.

IYHO maybe, but then we're all full of ****!
Minor Maggie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2009, 21:22   #245
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Maggie View Post
IYHO maybe, but then we're all full of ****!
My O isn't so H.

Austin was crap though and I hope Jimmy has a good ODI series.
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2009, 21:46   #246
Aidan11
Harmisonesque
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere cold and wet
Posts: 39,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim View Post
Good Old Soaraway Sun - "Samit Fatel"
Ah, the rapier wit of the Red Tops.
Aidan11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2009, 22:33   #247
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 42,208
Ian Austin was a Wisden Cricketer of the Year.
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2009, 22:43   #248
1000yardstare
Posting Goddess
 
1000yardstare's Avatar
JA 827 Cummins 149 Wagner 147 TCurran 21 SCurran 2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,661
Is there any reason why Patel has played half the number of first class games to Bopara who is younger?
1000yardstare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2009, 22:45   #249
Gilo's Doosra
Established International
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, Lincs
Team(s): Notts, England
Age: 26
Posts: 3,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
Guess what? Derek Pringle can't see a problem because his fitness doesn't affect his bowling or his ability to score runs. He's living in the past, the demands of international cricket are greater now and bowling your overs and jogging through for your runs are not enough these days.
What is 'enough' should be measured in results not method. Inzamam's batting and Warne's spin bowling suggest to me it is possible to be international standard while carrying a lot of weight if you've got the ability. Fitness will be a contributing factor to his performances, but of far more sway will be his talent and technique. Even his fielding is above average.

England have presumably done it to try and make Patel the best he can be, rather than simply good enough to get in the England team. Samit can't complain an awful lot as he isn't considered one of our top six batsmen yet and had warnings.
Gilo's Doosra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2009, 22:56   #250
Baron Shakattak Greenback
International Cricketer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London
Team(s): Notts, England, Shakib-al-Hasan
Posts: 2,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
Is there any reason why Patel has played half the number of first class games to Bopara who is younger?
The fabled Notts youth system, I think. Patel didn't establish himself in the team until a couple of seasons ago.
Baron Shakattak Greenback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2009, 05:56   #251
diteras.aka.
International Cricketer
 
diteras.aka.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Yorkshire
Team(s): durrr..........
Posts: 2,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilo's Doosra View Post
What is 'enough' should be measured in results not method. Inzamam's batting and Warne's spin bowling suggest to me it is possible to be international standard while carrying a lot of weight if you've got the ability. Fitness will be a contributing factor to his performances, but of far more sway will be his talent and technique. Even his fielding is above average.

England have presumably done it to try and make Patel the best he can be, rather than simply good enough to get in the England team. Samit can't complain an awful lot as he isn't considered one of our top six batsmen yet and had warnings.
yes, quite, it is sad but therefore necessary to point out to Patel that he ain't Inzy or Warne. Makes you wonder if we would have picked Inzy or Warne doesn't it? Or if some raving pedant nobody with a tape measure and a stopwatch would have gone of screaming ''I cant let you play ,your BMI is way over the amount I dictated in the e-mail I sent you last September - you know - before you scored the double ton/after you took all ten''..etc
It is fair enough though to 'measure' a player as a whole - But if he is comfortable 'in his skin' and his skin is, in the opinion of others, a little too much in quantity for his bones, you have to ask where that leads.

I mean that if Patel is a lad who is happy as a person as he is then why ask him to change into something which might make him unhappy and therefore less effective? Presumably we knew he liked a pie or two before he was selected? He was therefore selected as he was, told he was good enough as he was and then told to change.

I know there are standards and god forbid that Adidas (tm) should see anyone described as mildly portly sporting one of their finely cut shirts
But really it does seem a bit self defeating to humiliate a man in public like this.
__________________
In an England cricket XI, the flesh may be of the south, but the bone is of the north, and the backbone is Yorkshire."

(Sir Leonard Hutton
)

People from Yorkshire are very proud of their underachievement. You see these old fellas in the pub going: 'I've had a great life, me. Gone nowhere. Done **** all. Aye.
Paul Tonkinson
diteras.aka. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2009, 06:06   #252
diteras.aka.
International Cricketer
 
diteras.aka.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Yorkshire
Team(s): durrr..........
Posts: 2,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post

Austin was crap though and I hope Jimmy has a good ODI series.
good call x2 - I always wondered if when they picked 'Austin' they thought they were getting Steve - now he might have had a bit pf pace.
There was a time during the Bumble/ Atherton 'north western axis of despair' years, when I fully expected to see one of Bumbles Fox Terriers at cover. Might have made a better job than Watkinson - to be fair.
__________________
In an England cricket XI, the flesh may be of the south, but the bone is of the north, and the backbone is Yorkshire."

(Sir Leonard Hutton
)

People from Yorkshire are very proud of their underachievement. You see these old fellas in the pub going: 'I've had a great life, me. Gone nowhere. Done **** all. Aye.
Paul Tonkinson
diteras.aka. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2009, 15:28   #253
Creamy Goodness
Established International
 
Creamy Goodness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Borough, London
Age: 42
Posts: 4,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
Graeme Swann should never play for England again, the young leggies (Rashid, Marshall, Beer, Lawson, Munday and Salisbury etc) don't look quite ready, and outside of Monty, none of the orthodox spinners look remotely international class.

So in the absence of any spinners who look like regularly troubling international batsmen and instead just try and be economical. If that is the limit of their ambitions how about instead going down the route of a batsman who bowls a bit of spin? The West Indies with that waster Gayle, and Sri Lanka with Jayasuriya have employed this tactic to a fair bit of success.

In this respect Samit Patel intrigues me. I think England considered this type of option with Yardy, but I think Patel has far more potential as a batsman, and probably as a spinner as well. He's a player who has been earmarked as gifted for some time. He dominated u19 level and is putting in some impressive figures for Notts.
GBG - my word - eating hats and whatnot?
Creamy Goodness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2009, 16:18   #254
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creamy Goodness View Post
GBG - my word - eating hats and whatnot?
I still don't think Swann is the answer and I still think Patel could be, but I'd rather save that for the finger spin is dead thread.
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2009, 20:13   #255
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 42
Posts: 43,343
I don't at all buy the argument that Patel is a decent cricketer despite being a bloater so he shouldn't be told to shape up. Quite apart from gbg's entirely accurate points about needing to do a fair amount of running when batting and in the field, a batsman will inevitably be slower between the stumps if he's unfit. On the fatness versus fitness point, being a bloater isn't consistent with peak fitness and carrying what must be at least 10kg of extra weight is also inevitably going to slow a man down. We often see that it's a camera frame or two in it for run outs. Patel's shape will make him a slower fielder and a slower runner. If he were good enough to be picked for sure anyway then it would be a matter for regret and encouragement rather than dropping but he isn't, so it isn't.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2009, 20:53   #256
slowest_bowler
Established International
 
slowest_bowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Notts, England
Posts: 3,400
But is it good or bad psychology to make it so public? Maybe time will tell.
slowest_bowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2009, 20:54   #257
Aidan11
Harmisonesque
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere cold and wet
Posts: 39,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Maggie View Post
IYHO maybe, but then we're all full of ****!
I just hope the word that was blanked out began with an 's'. Otherwise that sentence could be quite embarrasing.
Aidan11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2009, 22:10   #258
Gilo's Doosra
Established International
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, Lincs
Team(s): Notts, England
Age: 26
Posts: 3,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatslogger View Post
I don't at all buy the argument that Patel is a decent cricketer despite being a bloater so he shouldn't be told to shape up. Quite apart from gbg's entirely accurate points about needing to do a fair amount of running when batting and in the field, a batsman will inevitably be slower between the stumps if he's unfit. On the fatness versus fitness point, being a bloater isn't consistent with peak fitness and carrying what must be at least 10kg of extra weight is also inevitably going to slow a man down. We often see that it's a camera frame or two in it for run outs. Patel's shape will make him a slower fielder and a slower runner. If he were good enough to be picked for sure anyway then it would be a matter for regret and encouragement rather than dropping but he isn't, so it isn't.
Agree with this although I think he is one of the best OD batsmen we have already. Still, in a couple of years it may be too late to make a statement to him as he may be an established member of the side - so I don't really object to getting one in now in the hope he will be spurred on to be the best he can be. If he does manage to make it to Test level despite his current physique (and he must/should be the next in line after Bopara) it doesn't say a lot for our current batsmen.
Gilo's Doosra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2009, 23:30   #259
Minor Maggie
Buttleresque
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Lancashire, England
Posts: 26,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan11 View Post
I just hope the word that was blanked out began with an 's'. Otherwise that sentence could be quite embarrasing.
Yes that word did begin with a s and also rhymes with a word that is a type of bird or an idiot!
Minor Maggie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2009, 14:11   #260
Aidan11
Harmisonesque
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere cold and wet
Posts: 39,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Maggie View Post
Yes that word did begin with a s and also rhymes with a word that is a type of bird or an idiot!
the word I was thinking of could also describe a type of bird or an idiot. Doesn't begin with 's' though.
Aidan11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:26.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Cricket247.org