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Old 29th December 2015, 17:02   #621
blackeyedangles
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So good to see Finn doing well - and this isn't even a wicket that especially suits his type of bowling...
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Old 29th December 2015, 17:12   #622
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I suspect someone might do some analysis and show that a good keeper does actually contribute more than a batsman with keeper gloves on. Obviously he can't be bates level with the bat but averaging 25 with bat rather than 35 should be fine.
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Old 29th December 2015, 17:30   #623
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I suspect someone might do some analysis and show that a good keeper does actually contribute more than a batsman with keeper gloves on. Obviously he can't be bates level with the bat but averaging 25 with bat rather than 35 should be fine.
Bairstow averages 28, Buttler 30 and Foster 25.

Edit: Prior averaged 40
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Old 29th December 2015, 17:58   #624
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The idea of going for a keeper-batsman is to balance the side, but when we have one seam bowler and the spinner who are capable of batting top 7, then I can see merit in picking the best gloveman capable of batting at 8.
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Old 29th December 2015, 18:01   #625
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The idea of going for a keeper-batsman is to balance the side, but when we have one seam bowler and the spinner who are capable of batting top 7, then I can see merit in picking the best gloveman capable of batting at 8.
I think that he and the best spinner both gave up their hopes of a cricket career some years ago, and now only play at weekends.
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Old 29th December 2015, 18:17   #626
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The idea of going for a keeper-batsman is to balance the side, but when we have one seam bowler and the spinner who are capable of batting top 7, then I can see merit in picking the best gloveman capable of batting at 8.
I can't quite get my head around the possible arguments here. Surely the aim for a wicket keeper is to have the highest nett return to the side. I see what you are saying but surely it is irrelevant what position they bat because the overall aim is the same. If we think that runs are more important then you pick the batsman but if catches And byes then pick the keeper. Surely a side has a view on which is most important to win matches and I am not sure that varies depending on the batting position even though it feels like it should.

Me? I don't think you should pick a complete muppet with the gloves.
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Old 29th December 2015, 19:31   #627
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I would be included to recall Buttler as the keeper whilst retaining Bairstow as a batsman only. Who to drop though? Woakes possibly, Ali maybe, Hales as expected hasn't done a thing, and am still far from convinced that Compton is international class.
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Old 29th December 2015, 19:33   #628
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I would be included to recall Buttler as the keeper whilst retaining Bairstow as a batsman only. Who to drop though? Woakes possibly, Ali maybe, Hales as expected hasn't done a thing, and am still far from convinced that Compton is international class.
You are suggesting we drop our spin bowler who got 4 first innings wickets and would have started second innings but for a joke keeper?
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Old 29th December 2015, 19:58   #629
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You are suggesting we drop our spin bowler who got 4 first innings wickets and would have started second innings but for a joke keeper?
You don't need a spinner in South Africa, yeah why not.
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Old 29th December 2015, 20:01   #630
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This has been an impressive effort by England thus far, admittedly made easier by SA's woes with Steyn and the retirements of Kallis and Smith.

I am shocked that de Villiers was required to keep wicket, a grave error on the part of the management that has him hinting at retirement from tests and no wonder. How disappointing.
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Old 29th December 2015, 20:02   #631
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You don't need a spinner in South Africa, yeah why not.
Lol. Check the wickets taken by the two spin bowlers in the match and compare to other front line bowlers.
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Old 29th December 2015, 20:11   #632
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SA haven't yet replaced Boucher or Prince, let alone Kallis or Smith. Like us with pre-2011 Strauss, Colly or Swann (in the field as much as their primary role)
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Old 29th December 2015, 20:19   #633
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SA haven't yet replaced Boucher or Prince, let alone Kallis or Smith. Like us with pre-2011 Strauss, Colly or Swann (in the field as much as their primary role)
Indeed. They are full of holes. Steyn is almost finished given his recent injuries. Not easy to replace so many brilliant players. It must be irritating for saffers seeing a chubby kallis win a second match out of three for his team in te BBL.
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Old 29th December 2015, 20:52   #634
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I would be included to recall Buttler as the keeper whilst retaining Bairstow as a batsman only. Who to drop though? Woakes possibly, Ali maybe, Hales as expected hasn't done a thing, and am still far from convinced that Compton is international class.
How has having a five man attack gone this game, cabin? How did SA do with four. How about having a spin bowler for either side? Anyway, Woakes is making way for Anderson, isn't he?

I think you can make a case for letting Hales go if he's not getting runs in the next couple of games but would be ridiculous after one test and I'm not sure Compton is test class either but dropping him after he got two scores would be frankly absurd unless obviously replacing him with a better top order player.
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Old 29th December 2015, 21:00   #635
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Indeed. They are full of holes. Steyn is almost finished given his recent injuries. Not easy to replace so many brilliant players. It must be irritating for saffers seeing a chubby kallis win a second match out of three for his team in te BBL.
I've been a bit surprised by how shocking they've been with the bat, although I was well aware that their side had flaws and that their tail was awful. Losing Steyn for the second innings was clearly bad for them but the game was already significantly in England's favour by then after the first innings.

Do need to sit down with the highlights a bit though, as I've not seen all that much of it live after day 1, which I got most of. Being at work Sunday and Monday was a bit poor in that regard. Should have checked the cricket calendar before doing the rota really.
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Old 29th December 2015, 22:21   #636
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How has having a five man attack gone this game, cabin? How did SA do with four. How about having a spin bowler for either side? Anyway, Woakes is making way for Anderson, isn't he?

I think you can make a case for letting Hales go if he's not getting runs in the next couple of games but would be ridiculous after one test and I'm not sure Compton is test class either but dropping him after he got two scores would be frankly absurd unless obviously replacing him with a better top order player.
I would always want a spinner if we have one of quality. As it is, we have a batsman as our premier spinner batting at 8, a batsman as our keeper (not that outrageous a decision, but whose keeping is somewhat suspect), a one day specialist as an opener and two all rounders in Stokes and Woakes who basically do the same thing. Meanwhile, the most explosive and talented of our batsmen, Buttler, sits on the sidelines. We will get away with it in this match, partly because SA have their own internal selectorial demons to contend with, but we will get found out sooner than later.

We also seriously need to plan for a post-Anderson future very very soon.
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Old 29th December 2015, 22:42   #637
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I would always want a spinner if we have one of quality. As it is, we have a batsman as our premier spinner batting at 8, a batsman as our keeper (not that outrageous a decision, but whose keeping is somewhat suspect), a one day specialist as an opener and two all rounders in Stokes and Woakes who basically do the same thing. Meanwhile, the most explosive and talented of our batsmen, Buttler, sits on the sidelines. We will get away with it in this match, partly because SA have their own internal selectorial demons to contend with, but we will get found out sooner than later.

We also seriously need to plan for a post-Anderson future very very soon.
Finn, Broad, Wood and Stokes is probably as good a pace attack as any other country has.

It destroyed Australia at Trent Bridge and without Wood is beating South Africa in this test.
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Old 29th December 2015, 23:33   #638
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Finn, Broad, Wood and Stokes is probably as good a pace attack as any other country has.

It destroyed Australia at Trent Bridge and without Wood is beating South Africa in this test.
Agreed, there is pace and variety amongst those four, let's hope the selectors see it that way too and don't try and force square pegs into round holes.

I honestly can't see Anderson lasting beyond next summer.
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Old 29th December 2015, 23:40   #639
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Agreed, there is pace and variety amongst those four, let's hope the selectors see it that way too and don't try and force square pegs into round holes.

I honestly can't see Anderson lasting beyond next summer.
Maybe Wood and Anderson are rotated in the future. I think both will struggle to play back-to-back tests.
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Old 30th December 2015, 01:02   #640
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SA suffering their usual Durban nightmare. England should wrap this up quickly with the brittle batsmen following. The question is will SA improve during the next tests to make this competitive. Their batsmen are either horribly out of form or not up to it. Additionally just about every time Steyn plays now he leaves them with a three man attack. SA's batting line-up is now among the most fragile in world cricket. Even the Windies gave a yelp yesterday. We know that some of them aren't up to test cricket but Amla and Faf are massive concerns.

The keepers for both teams let their opposition off the hook with muffed chances.

SA is looking for changes to the second test but this article points out how the transformation guidelines cloud matters.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-af...ry/956359.html

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