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Old 30th December 2015, 08:54   #661
Ali TT
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Better than Oz but that isn't saying much. Have you ever put the result of any cricket result down to the winning side playing well? As far as I can see in your world the losing side only loses when playing terribly. It is a trait some have throughout sport or even life.
I also don't share the assumption that SA will collapse all series either. They're still a decent side playing at home and I reckon they'll bounce back. If recent history of England tours to South Africa tell us anything it's that momentum shifts dramatically even within matches, let alone between them. Still think this could be an interesting series but won't complain too much if we thrash them...

I've been a big critic of his but Mo has bowled beautifully in this match and deserves his wickets, although as he admitted after the first innings it's a bit easier when it's not Younis, Misbah and co at the other end.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:02   #662
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I also don't share the assumption that SA will collapse all series either. They're still a decent side playing at home and I reckon they'll bounce back. If recent history of England tours to South Africa tell us anything it's that momentum shifts dramatically even within matches, let alone between them. Still think this could be an interesting series but won't complain too much if we thrash them...

I've been a big critic of his but Mo has bowled beautifully in this match and deserves his wickets, although as he admitted after the first innings it's a bit easier when it's not Younis, Misbah and co at the other end.
My memory can play tricks but I recall a recent series in South Africa when England won the 1st test well then got hammered in the Cape Town test. Maybe the series was drawn.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:07   #663
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South Africa have not had a century stand all year. That is staggering.

I was having a shower so missed it but did TMS give some stats for Moeen in the fourth innings. We have discussed whether he has actually bowled much in fourth innings let alone on day five. It would be interesting to know.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:08   #664
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My memory can play tricks but I recall a recent series in South Africa when England won the 1st test well then got hammered in the Cape Town test. Maybe the series was drawn.
2004/5 England won the first test at Port Elizabeth comfortably and then after getting bowled out at Durban cheaply and conceding a big first innings lead batted really well second innings and nearly forced a win when bad light denied them. However the short turn around between that and Cape Town meant that when England lost the toss they did a whole lot of leather chasing on a shirt-front. England got rolled easily that day. We did win the series courtesy of a Hoggy masterclass at Joburg.

Last tour (2009/10) we won at Durban but then only got away by the skin of our teeth at Cape Town largely thanks to Bell and Collingwood although there was a late collapse when those two got out and it was left to Graham Onions to block out again as he had done in Centurion. That was a drawn series as England got stuffed at Joburg on a fast, bouncy pitch.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:13   #665
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2004/5 England won the first test at Port Elizabeth comfortably and then after getting bowled out at Durban cheaply and conceding a big first innings lead batted really well second innings and nearly forced a win when bad light denied them. However the short turn around between that and Cape Town meant that when England lost the toss they did a whole lot of leather chasing on a shirt-front. England got rolled easily that day. We did win the series courtesy of a Hoggy masterclass at Joburg.

Last tour (2009/10) we won at Durban but then only got away by the skin of our teeth at Cape Town largely thanks to Bell and Collingwood although there was a late collapse when those two got out and it was left to Graham Onions to block out again as he had done in Centurion. That was a drawn series as England got stuffed at Joburg on a fast, bouncy pitch.
Yep..was thinking of the 2009 series.. got the result at Cape Town wrong but my general recollection was correct. Think we will likely force a series win this time.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:14   #666
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Well done Chris, on the board.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:14   #667
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My memory can play tricks but I recall a recent series in South Africa when England won the 1st test well then got hammered in the Cape Town test. Maybe the series was drawn.
2004/5? We won comfortably at Port Elizabeth, drew at Durban after being rolled over on the first day, thrashed at Newlands, won a great game at the Wanderers then held on at Centurion for the series win.

We drew last time around through hanging on twice when 9 down.

Woakes has a wicket, bloody hell!
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:16   #668
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Woakes has taken this game by the scruff
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:16   #669
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How many from this current side would get in either of those two teams? The 04/05 side had boeta diepenaar (whose name I never could spell) so Amla could replace him. Possibly morkel to bowl.

Similar with the 09/10 side.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:18   #670
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Yet another match without a five wicket haul for Mo. Drop him.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:18   #671
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Yep..was thinking of the 2009 series.. got the result at Cape Town wrong but my general recollection was correct. Think we will likely force a series win this time.
The only real concern for England must be whether or not they lose the toss on a Cape Town shirt front and perhaps have to bowl at an SA line-up with one or two newcomers who might have a point to prove. They also usually play well at Cape Town unlike Durban so there's no room for complacency.

Otherwise I really think that whoever is bowling next test, whether or not Anderson is back or not (and it is starting to look like he will be) will fancy having SAs number again.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:19   #672
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Well done Chris, on the board.
He looked as surprised as we all felt
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:21   #673
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Has repeated stonewalling efforts made Faf forget how to actually score runs? These days, I only see him blocking balls for a long while before he gifts his wicket away.
I'd say he's forgotten how to score runs and stonewalling is the only thing he can still do well.

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2004/5 England won the first test at Port Elizabeth comfortably and then after getting bowled out at Durban cheaply and conceding a big first innings lead batted really well second innings and nearly forced a win when bad light denied them. However the short turn around between that and Cape Town meant that when England lost the toss they did a whole lot of leather chasing on a shirt-front. England got rolled easily that day. We did win the series courtesy of a Hoggy masterclass at Joburg.

Last tour (2009/10) we won at Durban but then only got away by the skin of our teeth at Cape Town largely thanks to Bell and Collingwood although there was a late collapse when those two got out and it was left to Graham Onions to block out again as he had done in Centurion. That was a drawn series as England got stuffed at Joburg on a fast, bouncy pitch.
At the moment this feels more like the 2004 series, with England being the superior team, whereas in 2009 they did brilliantly to come away with a draw. It's difficult to see how SA can recover. They could, but I'll have to see it to believe it.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:22   #674
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You do wonder how long Amla can go on with the captaincy? Interestingly TMS were suggesting he's been unable to juggle captaincy and run scoring throughout his career. You wouldn't mind the lack of runs if there was evidence of his captaincy producing positive effect, but that simply isn't the case and South Africa can't afford their best Test batsmen not being able to buy a run. It's also worth remembering that he was pretty reluctant to take the role in the first place. Not sure where it would go next mind, with de Villiers looking to cut down his workload.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:23   #675
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He looked as surprised as we all felt
Knock it off, he deserved that wicket. He'll obviously drop out for Anderson in the next game, but I have no worries about him coming in again if/when required.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:23   #676
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Sorting this out quickly today could have a huge impact on the series. Broad won't need to bowl and woakes probably won't play. Stokes won't need to bowl. Had they kept us out all day then with back to back tests we could have been in trouble with them batting first but now we have effectively one more day of rest.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:23   #677
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Didn't amla debut in 2004 and look completely clueless? Steyn too, without the clueless bit so much.
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:24   #678
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You do wonder how long Amla can go on with the captaincy? Interestingly TMS were suggesting he's been unable to juggle captaincy and run scoring throughout his career. You wouldn't mind the lack of runs if there was evidence of his captaincy producing positive effect, but that simply isn't the case and South Africa can't afford their best Test batsmen not being able to buy a run. It's also worth remembering that he was pretty reluctant to take the role in the first place. Not sure where it would go next mind, with de Villiers looking to cut down his workload.
Maybe cook will be to saffer captains what smith was to our's!
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:25   #679
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Didn't amla debut in 2004 and look completely clueless? Steyn too, without the clueless bit so much.
There were some dubious picks in that series as well, Tsolekile? de Bruyn?
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:25   #680
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Didn't amla debut in 2004 and look completely clueless? Steyn too, without the clueless bit so much.
Yes. He was scared of the short ball. He was probably still better than current Amla though.
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