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Old 30th May 2016, 21:37   #221
JRC67
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I agree with MV, but I still maintain that 4 seamers and 2 spinners isn't necessary. It would however seem as though Ali's bowling isn't ever going to be test class, so 4 seamers and 2 half spinners might be the way to go. Even if Borthwick didn't bowl, for me Malan and Borthwick are both more worthy of their place than Compton.
If Borthwick does come in he will do so because of his record as a number 3, his bowling will just be an added bonus. I quite like him as a 3 because he has become a gritty cricketer. Playing and being successful as a batsman at Durham tests out a player's technique. Compton probably has one more opportunity at best.

In terms of selection for India Batty, Leach and Raynor are all averaging under 30 and must be in with a shout for India and maybe a London Test vs Pakistan. Will be interesting to see if we go with 2 spinners or one and maybe 2 or 3 part-timers in the winter.
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Old 30th May 2016, 21:39   #222
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Economy rate of 2.50 is nice, too. Suggests he offers good control as well as being a wicket taking threat. Think this winter will be too soon but if Moeen continues to be nothing more than OK then maybe he can challenge next summer. Certainly looks the standout spin option at this rate.
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Old 30th May 2016, 21:41   #223
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Regards India, I think it's safe to assume Rashid and Ali will be in the squad. Ansari probably most likely to go as the last spinner based off his previous selection, but if Finn struggles over the summer I suppose we might see a spinner who can't bat.
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Old 30th May 2016, 21:44   #224
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If Borthwick does come in he will do so because of his record as a number 3, his bowling will just be an added bonus. I quite like him as a 3 because he has become a gritty cricketer. Playing and being successful as a batsman at Durham tests out a player's technique. Compton probably has one more opportunity at best.

In terms of selection for India Batty, Leach and Raynor are all averaging under 30 and must be in with a shout for India and maybe a London Test vs Pakistan. Will be interesting to see if we go with 2 spinners or one and maybe 2 or 3 part-timers in the winter.
Agreed about Borthwick. Someone argued that if we called him up we'd have two part time spinners which would somehow be better than just one in Ali. It wouldn't, as shown in our recent tour to the UAE where two sub-standard spinners got eaten alive.

I can't see Batty being considered.
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Old 30th May 2016, 21:54   #225
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If Borthwick does come in he will do so because of his record as a number 3, his bowling will just be an added bonus. I quite like him as a 3 because he has become a gritty cricketer. Playing and being successful as a batsman at Durham tests out a player's technique. Compton probably has one more opportunity at best.

In terms of selection for India Batty, Leach and Raynor are all averaging under 30 and must be in with a shout for India and maybe a London Test vs Pakistan. Will be interesting to see if we go with 2 spinners or one and maybe 2 or 3 part-timers in the winter.
Potential team in India:

1. Cook
2. Hales
3. Borthwick
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Ansari
9. Woakes
10. Broad
11. Anderson

12. Vince
13. Buttler
14. Rashid
15. Finn
16. Wood
17. Ball
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Old 30th May 2016, 21:54   #226
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Regards India, I think it's safe to assume Rashid and Ali will be in the squad. Ansari probably most likely to go as the last spinner based off his previous selection, but if Finn struggles over the summer I suppose we might see a spinner who can't bat.
I wouldn't be surprised if neither Ali nor Rashid are included. It's still a long way off, but there's really no chance of Ali improving his bowling enough to be worth considering as a bowler. Rashid may simply have missed his chance; it speaks volumes that even with batting as good as his, he's failed to oust Ali.
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Old 30th May 2016, 22:21   #227
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I wouldn't be surprised if neither Ali nor Rashid are included. It's still a long way off, but there's really no chance of Ali improving his bowling enough to be worth considering as a bowler. Rashid may simply have missed his chance; it speaks volumes that even with batting as good as his, he's failed to oust Ali.
Lol. Are you being serious. Ali could easily have been given man of the match for the second game in six and you think he will be dropped. Goodness me.

Having moeen means that we could conceivably play four seamers and two spin bowlers. One of those spin bowlers has a record vs India better than warne.

It is worth many on this board noting that ansari bowled 9 overs in a match where half the wickets were taken by spin. Batty and leach both bowled over 30 second innings.
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Old 30th May 2016, 22:37   #228
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I think Ansari will probably tour but it's on a bit of a prayer really. It's far from clear at this stage that he won't be worse than Ali with the bat and no better with the ball. That he's being discussed as a specialist spinner shows how short of real specialists we are. There's plenty of scope for fitting a pure spin bowler into the England side given our array of all rounders but when Tredwell keeps being mentioned you can tell the cupboard is bare.
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Old 30th May 2016, 22:59   #229
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I think Ansari will probably tour but it's on a bit of a prayer really. It's far from clear at this stage that he won't be worse than Ali with the bat and no better with the ball. That he's being discussed as a specialist spinner shows how short of real specialists we are. There's plenty of scope for fitting a pure spin bowler into the England side given our array of all rounders but when Tredwell keeps being mentioned you can tell the cupboard is bare.
Bit unfair on Tredwell. He never really let us down in any form of cricket. Leach might end up being the man, but I always want to see two good seasons before I commit myself to supporting a spinner. Look at what happened to Riley.

I reckon Kerrigan is the best spinner in England, but I don't think he'll ever be up to it personally.
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Old 30th May 2016, 22:59   #230
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Lol. Are you being serious. Ali could easily have been given man of the match for the second game in six and you think he will be dropped. Goodness me ...
Sorry, just to clarify ... I think of Moeen as a batsman and I have no particular objections to him being selected as such, but I don't think he's worth considering as a bowler.
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:03   #231
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Sorry, just to clarify ... I think of Moeen as a batsman and I have no particular objections to him being selected as such, but I don't think he's worth considering as a bowler.
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:06   #232
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Bit unfair on Tredwell. He never really let us down in any form of cricket. Leach might end up being the man, but I always want to see two good seasons before I commit myself to supporting a spinner. Look at what happened to Riley.

I reckon Kerrigan is the best spinner in England, but I don't think he'll ever be up to it personally.
This is pretty much my point. Tredwell did perfectly well for England but he's a very limited spinner. You could take him as a Shaun Udal pick but he's probably not even as good as that.

Agree with you about the others although couldn't claim to have followed any of their county careers terribly closely. From what I have seen of Kerrigan I don't think his action is terrribly robust.
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:11   #233
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This is pretty much my point. Tredwell did perfectly well for England but he's a very limited spinner. You could take him as a Shaun Udal pick but he's probably not even as good as that.
Far better than Udal in my view.
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:11   #234
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This is pretty much my point. Tredwell did perfectly well for England but he's a very limited spinner. You could take him as a Shaun Udal pick but he's probably not even as good as that.
Well Batty has had a mention on here now, so all bets are off
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:19   #235
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Far better than Udal in my view.
Why do you think he is? He has a significantly worse FC record than Udal and two tests worth of mediocre bowling against mediocre sides for okay returns hardly makes him a different bowler to the one who has often enough struggled even to get county games. Even given our lack of decent options, Tredwell would be a barrel scrape of a pick.

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Well Batty has had a mention on here now, so all bets are off
God knows. Again, this is my point: we're throwing around names of ageing players who were never good enough for international cricket and have distinctly average records because our options are so poor.
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:31   #236
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Why do you think he is? He has a significantly worse FC record than Udal and two tests worth of mediocre bowling against mediocre sides for okay returns hardly makes him a different bowler to the one who has often enough struggled even to get county games. Even given our lack of decent options, Tredwell would be a barrel scrape of a pick.



God knows. Again, this is my point: we're throwing around names of ageing players who were never good enough for international cricket and have distinctly average records because our options are so poor.
I'd take Shaun Udal to be honest, even now after years of retirement, over the current options, (Udal was a better bowler than Tredwell).
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:31   #237
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We have one of the best all rounders in the history of English cricket and we beat ourselves up about it.

Are tredders and Riley playing this season?
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:36   #238
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I'd take Shaun Udal to be honest, even now after years of retirement, over the current options, (Udal was a better bowler than Tredwell).
I almost replied before the edit to say that I probably wouldn't take Udal over Tredwell now he's 6 years retired.
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:38   #239
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I almost replied before the edit to say that I probably wouldn't take Udal over Tredwell now he's 6 years retired.
I probably still would.
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Old 30th May 2016, 23:41   #240
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We have one of the best all rounders in the history of English cricket and we beat ourselves up about it.

Are tredders and Riley playing this season?
Is scoring and conceding a century in the same match a bit like scoring at both ends in football?
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