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Old 12th January 2021, 09:19   #181
Jock McTuffnel v3
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I don't care either way, but can we mathematically not qualify now? I thought we still could.

I'm not sure how playing a third spinner in Sri Lanka who wasn't good enough to make the original squad is going to help our Ashes chances.
Giving a young spinner an opportunity for a breakthrough series is very important - I don't think the Ozzie batsmen are that worried about Bess or Leach.
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Old 12th January 2021, 09:24   #182
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Me neither, it is utter chalk and cheese playing in Sri Lanka compared to Australia. Certainly don't think Bairstow at 3 would remotely happen come November even if England decided to drop Burns and keep Crawley at opener. I think Cummins and co would be licking their lips at castling Jonny on a regular basis.
Given the only reason Bairstow is back in the side is because he's Root's Yorkshire buddy, I would say Parkinson's chances are fairly slim. Really, though, England's only way not to pick him is to pretend that Leach and Bess on their own are a good enough spin attack.

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Old 12th January 2021, 09:43   #183
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Given the only reason Bairstow is back in the side is because he's Root's Yorkshire buddy, I would say Parkinson's chances are fairly slim. Really, though, England's only way not to pick him is to pretend that Leach and Bess on their own are a good enough spin attack.
My guess is that Leach will do ok in Sri Lanka and that Bess will again look ordinary. When England last went there, Moeen was in excellent form and Rashid bowled decently in the test matches. Now one is out of the first test and the other hasn't played first class cricket since a rubbish performance in the opening Windies test a couple of years ago.
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Old 12th January 2021, 10:09   #184
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My guess is that Leach will do ok in Sri Lanka and that Bess will again look ordinary. When England last went there, Moeen was in excellent form and Rashid bowled decently in the test matches. Now one is out of the first test and the other hasn't played first class cricket since a rubbish performance in the opening Windies test a couple of years ago.
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Old 12th January 2021, 10:27   #185
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Of course its a problem, Jock. Given so much first class cricket is played in spring and autumn it is no frigging surprise that spin doesn't get much of a look in. That said, there just doesn't look to be a great deal of talent around even so with many of the spinners looking better in the shorter forms.

I will try not to go on a rant about bowling averages being nigh on worthless as many a medium pacer fills their boots on green tops..............
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Old 12th January 2021, 22:00   #186
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Of course its a problem, Jock. Given so much first class cricket is played in spring and autumn it is no frigging surprise that spin doesn't get much of a look in. That said, there just doesn't look to be a great deal of talent around even so with many of the spinners looking better in the shorter forms.

I will try not to go on a rant about bowling averages being nigh on worthless as many a medium pacer fills their boots on green tops..............
Ironically last Spring would have been good for spinners as it was very dry. Unfortunately a certain virus intervened.
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Old 13th January 2021, 09:45   #187
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Ironically last Spring would have been good for spinners as it was very dry. Unfortunately a certain virus intervened.
Cric info suggesting the 3rd spinner will be Root.
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Old 13th January 2021, 10:05   #188
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Cric info suggesting the 3rd spinner will be Root.
Most likely team would appear to be:

Sibley, Crawley, Bairstow, Root, Lawrence, Buttler, Curran, Bess, Leach, Wood, Anderson

Potential changes are Stone and Broad for the last 2 mentioned.

Moeen out of the 2nd Test now too, the nightmare tour for him.
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Old 13th January 2021, 10:10   #189
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Ironically last Spring would have been good for spinners as it was very dry. Unfortunately a certain virus intervened.
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Most likely team would appear to be:

Sibley, Crawley, Bairstow, Root, Lawrence, Buttler, Curran, Bess, Leach, Wood, Anderson

Potential changes are Stone and Broad for the last 2 mentioned.

Moeen out of the 2nd Test now too, the nightmare tour for him.

Why not Broad for Curran - tail too long ?

Moeen's last big chance for a final hurrah was this series and India. Can't believe he would be picked for the Ashes in Oz.
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Old 13th January 2021, 10:38   #190
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Why not Broad for Curran - tail too long ?

Moeen's last big chance for a final hurrah was this series and India. Can't believe he would be picked for the Ashes in Oz.
I think 7 was always going to be one of Woakes, Curran or Ali. That selection has been made very straightforward.

Broad and Anderson likely to be rotated in Sri Lanka and kept fresher for India.
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Old 13th January 2021, 10:58   #191
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To be fair to leach, didn’t he average about 25 in the ashes vs Oz. Not bad.
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Old 13th January 2021, 11:04   #192
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To be fair to leach, didnít he average about 25 in the ashes vs Oz. Not bad.
Leach v Bess for the summer spinner spot is a good incentive for both to turn it on.

Should be a fun series - and mostly on during Uk daytime - an incentive to get up early to start work.
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Old 13th January 2021, 15:08   #193
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Giving a young spinner an opportunity for a breakthrough series is very important - I don't think the Ozzie batsmen are that worried about Bess or Leach.
Not sure I agree about it being "important", the problem with a spinner for England is they are going to get chances on tours of the subcontinent then probably struggle to get a look in thereafter as three spinners in say Sri Lanka might "work", but then three into one when they play in England doesn't go.........

Unless of course they are any good like Swann, so capable in various conditions, or can bat like Ali could (in theory and at times/for a while)

So in conditions where even a decent debut is achieved by an England wannabe spinner it isn't really going to be a "breakthrough" unless they are a Swann or thereabouts, a breakthrough series would imply that they'll play in the next series regardless where and that isn't a given for England spinners generally which is why there have been so many tried even in the past 3-6 years



Still tickles me pink the irony that bowlers struggle outside of established ones to get a run, dropped if they don't succeed in only a small handful of Tests, yet batsmen can struggle over 2-3 times as many Tests, the side be bowled out for under 100 or certainly too often under 200 yet after such failures the bowlers see as many or often more changes in their line up then the batting does!
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Old 13th January 2021, 15:19   #194
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To be fair to leach, didnít he average about 25 in the ashes vs Oz. Not bad.
To be fair to Leach I don't think he's done much wrong, other than not being deemed good enough with the bat which Ali and Bess, his main obstacles past and present are


Leach has bowled 100+ overs in a series twice, 18 @ 21.39 in Sri Lanka, 12 @ 25.83 at home in the Ashes. In the two series he's bowled 40-60 overs he's averaged over 50 in both, both in New Zealand.

Kiwis made 615/9d in the only innings he bowled out there in 19/20, in 17/18 he took 2/61 in the 2nd innings it was Root's insistence on bowling him for 19 wicketless overs 1st innings when Broad and Anderson took all 10 wickets between them that crippled his average then



By contrast Bess has only one series averaging under 40, 8 wkts @ 25.25 in South Africa. Fair enough he bowled less than 80 overs in this three home series, but there isn't that much to suggest he is a better choice than Leach other than England perhaps being happier with him batting 7-8 than Leach.


On straightforward comparison terms Leach averages a smidge over 29, Bess averages a smidge over 40, with the ball, with the bat it's about the same gap but the other way.....
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Old 13th January 2021, 16:14   #195
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Bess left Somerset for a reason. That was that he was second fiddle because Somerset have a full attack of handy batsmen (shame the actual batsmen suck) so they can have leach. England want bess as better fielder and batsman.
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Old 14th January 2021, 05:04   #196
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I had no idea this was even happening. Weren't Sri Lanka like, in South Africa the other day? Presume Archer & Pope are injured.
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Old 14th January 2021, 05:10   #197
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I had no idea this was even happening. Weren't Sri Lanka like, in South Africa the other day? Presume Archer & Pope are injured.
I think Archer is being given some time off after his important exertions in the lucrative IPL.

Poor start from Root with the toss. Looks like England have picked several unnecessary seamers.

Huzzah! A wicket!
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Old 14th January 2021, 05:15   #198
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What's unnecessary was all those interruptions, what on earth was going on?

Broad with two now.
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Old 14th January 2021, 05:35   #199
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This is not being shown on TV in Australia, but I have got the Sky Sports stream online to have a look.

Interruptions in cricket, surely not. LOL.
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Old 14th January 2021, 05:37   #200
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This is not being shown on TV in Australia, but I have got the Sky Sports stream online to have a look.

Interruptions in cricket, surely not. LOL.
67mins in and only 10 overs bowled, no one in the ground either.

Terrible from Perera, Bess gets him with his second ball.
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