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Old 17th February 2021, 16:46   #221
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So after England win the pink ball test ... will be another turn from day 1 pitch for the fourth test. This time England will play the third spinner .. .so Virdi or Crane? Heart says Crane ... sense says Virdi!
I'm sure I saw a squad of 17 announced for the Third Test, with neither Crane nor Virdi in it. Is there some sort of back up squad in India to cover for emergencies? What about Matt Parkinson? I just don't get why Crane is out there. He must have the flimsiest credentials of any player I can think of to have won a Test cap. Scott Borthwick and Simon Kerrigan each made a better case at county level.

If we're desperate for a leggie it should be Parkinson. From what I've seen of Virdi I think he would relish the challenge. He should arguably be ahead of Bess already purely on bowling merit, especially if the latter has the yips as has been suggested in some quarters.
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Old 17th February 2021, 19:59   #222
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Parkinson is out there in the back-ups too ... but personally think he is too slow.
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Old 18th February 2021, 02:09   #223
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How'd this one rate on FTA?
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Old 18th February 2021, 08:35   #224
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How'd this one rate on FTA?
I still can't find anything. But I think we can presume that the figures were probably not as good as the First Test and declined quickly as the bandwagon jumpers realised we don't always win!

I should imagine the Day 4 figures were very small. Even us hardened fans don't bother getting up at 4am to watch an inevitable defeat.
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Old 18th February 2021, 08:49   #225
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How'd this one rate on FTA?
Very highly. It's still free.
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Old 18th February 2021, 09:13   #226
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I'm sure I saw a squad of 17 announced for the Third Test, with neither Crane nor Virdi in it. Is there some sort of back up squad in India to cover for emergencies? What about Matt Parkinson? I just don't get why Crane is out there. He must have the flimsiest credentials of any player I can think of to have won a Test cap. Scott Borthwick and Simon Kerrigan each made a better case at county level.

If we're desperate for a leggie it should be Parkinson. From what I've seen of Virdi I think he would relish the challenge. He should arguably be ahead of Bess already purely on bowling merit, especially if the latter has the yips as has been suggested in some quarters.
Virdi seems to have some balls at least - I'd give him a run out maybe in the dead rubber 5th test.
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Old 18th February 2021, 09:20   #227
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Updated :

2 of Englands best players haven't played for months : neither batted well and Stokes's bowling continues to be a side issue.
2 opening bowlers have a combined age of 72 : a big risk as the tests come thick and fast
Englands opening batsmen can't score a run : Sibley had 1 innings. Number 3 is a new risk.
Our keeper couldn't catch Covid in a Scottish care home : Specialist keeper coming in - but can he score runs ?
Our spinners serve up pies - remains high risk - both spinners had spells of being crap.
Our captain doesn't even play in the IPL - this was tongue in cheek
Moeen Ali may get picked - the chances of this is diminishing.

Overall - there is now a chance we could draw the series.
Updated

Stokes bowling has been poor and Jofra injured already.
They won't pick Jimmy and Broad was terrible in the 2nd test.
Openers still a massive issue - Burns likely about to get dropped.
Foakes did ok.
Our spinners are still bang average.
Root still not in the IPL.
Of the last 6 test matches Moeen has played England have won 2 and lost 4. The two wins were against the teams ranked 8th and 10th.

Updated prediction : 3-1 India.
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Old 18th February 2021, 09:28   #228
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I'm sure I saw a squad of 17 announced for the Third Test, with neither Crane nor Virdi in it. Is there some sort of back up squad in India to cover for emergencies? What about Matt Parkinson? I just don't get why Crane is out there. He must have the flimsiest credentials of any player I can think of to have won a Test cap. Scott Borthwick and Simon Kerrigan each made a better case at county level.

If we're desperate for a leggie it should be Parkinson. From what I've seen of Virdi I think he would relish the challenge. He should arguably be ahead of Bess already purely on bowling merit, especially if the latter has the yips as has been suggested in some quarters.
Yes, there is - Bracey, Crane, Mahmood, Matt Parkinson, Ollie Robinson, Virdi.

But it looks as if part of the thinking with those choices is that they are there primarily for the experience.

Crane did have a good season in 2020 and is obviously still being looked at in terms of potential. Agreed that Virdi would be a good choice should they actually need one of those to play. I'm looking forward to the day when Dan Moriarty makes his England bow.
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Old 18th February 2021, 09:50   #229
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Virdi seems to have some balls at least - I'd give him a run out maybe in the dead rubber 5th test.
Has that just been added to the schedule?
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Old 18th February 2021, 11:52   #230
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Has that just been added to the schedule?
Oops 4th.

BBC TMS podcast 17/2 giving Silverwood both barrels.

Suggesting that England will keep rotation going all summer and Joe Root wont have his best team around until Brisbane (!).
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Old 18th February 2021, 11:57   #231
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Oops 4th.

BBC TMS podcast 17/2 giving Silverwood both barrels.

Suggesting that England will keep rotation going all summer and Joe Root wont have his best team around until Brisbane (!).
I think there would be no problem rotating English players when India is touring, because we're gonna get walloped over there, regardless of which team you guys put together.
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Old 18th February 2021, 12:18   #232
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I think there would be no problem rotating English players when India is touring, because we're gonna get walloped over there, regardless of which team you guys put together.
Yet we played our strongest team in Sri Lanka.

Problem is bigger than this tour.
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Old 18th February 2021, 13:01   #233
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Yet we played our strongest team in Sri Lanka.

Problem is bigger than this tour.
No we didn't. Where were Stokes, Burns and Archer?

I'm not sure we even have a strongest 11, we have a decent squad, especially with fast bowlers for whom it makes absolute sense to rotate so that they're all available come Ashes time.

As CM says, any 3 out of Woakes, Anderson, Broad, Curran, Archer, Wood, Stone ought to provide significant issue to an Indian Touring side. I wouldn't be surprised if Stokes is rested at some point for Woakes/Curran.
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Old 18th February 2021, 14:14   #234
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Our batsmen these days are pretty decent against pace and bounce but are hopeless against any sort of movement - in the air or off the pitch. Despite our successes in Australia, we are going to struggle in England. Our bowlers will probably ensure the matches are closer than what they seem, but our batsmen will be the reason why we will get whipped.
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Old 18th February 2021, 14:15   #235
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Yes, there is - Bracey, Crane, Mahmood, Matt Parkinson, Ollie Robinson, Virdi.

But it looks as if part of the thinking with those choices is that they are there primarily for the experience.

Crane did have a good season in 2020 and is obviously still being looked at in terms of potential. Agreed that Virdi would be a good choice should they actually need one of those to play. I'm looking forward to the day when Dan Moriarty makes his England bow.
I assume there is no Lions tour this winter? Bringing the back up players along is about as close as they could manage I guess.
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Old 18th February 2021, 16:30   #236
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Old 18th February 2021, 23:25   #237
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Oops 4th.

BBC TMS podcast 17/2 giving Silverwood both barrels.

Suggesting that England will keep rotation going all summer and Joe Root wont have his best team around until Brisbane (!).
Not sure how the 4th Test can be a dead rubber ...
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Old 18th February 2021, 23:33   #238
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Just seen this on Sky News. Disappointing.
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Old 19th February 2021, 09:53   #239
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Just seen this on Sky News. Disappointing.
He wasn't likely to play so probably on balance the right decision.
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Old 20th February 2021, 13:13   #240
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Not overly impressed with that piece, not least comparing Stokes with Ashwin, one in as a batsman and bit part quick on wickets where spin is king, the other a spinner who is more than useful with the bat

I mean yeah, if Stokes had taken 17 wickets and Ashwin 1 then might bear comparison, but if Ashwin had bowled 12 overs like Stokes instead of nearly TEN TIMES as many then maybe he'd have 1-4 wickets and the comparison somewhat more sensible rather than, as seems, "just thrown in there"



Does beggar belief the wooden way they've gone about rotation although I strongly suspect they just discussed various players, made plans well before they should have, and use it as a smokescreen to avoid question marks over odd decisions - regardless what some aussie thinks, there's a lot at stake and these aren't just "friendlies" or warm ups, so who unless their quality level is fairly consistent across 15-25 players which is unlikely, unless not very high quality, is going to risk losses....?!?

Especially in India where it isn't like the pitches are going to be almost random in favouring spin or pace, so you need good players of spin, good exponents of the spin bowling art, keepers who can keep and bat on such pitches, so maybe what Finch said may apply in many series, it has little bearing, sense or place in India.....


Also find it odd he should ask if players will be rested from white ball games playing every Test when that is where you can 'rest' players, you can make a case for Stokes to be invaluable in all formats, Root can play to a decent level in ODIs but isn't really a much better option than some England won't pick (like Hales)

Morgan doesn't play Tests, perhaps that is more than just down to choice, but also Anderson and Broad no longer play the shorter formats and that hasn't stopped England scraping home to win the World Cup for the first time across several attempts/finals, nor made much impact on their Test performances (England, not anyone named) so why not bite the bullet and have almost a "clean cut", I'm sure they won't because of Stokes, but if he doesn't bowl as much in Tests then I'm sure they can manage his workload by limiting his limited overs appearances to a handful before the big events themselves........


Also very farcical England trying to manage player workloads, so they claim, whilst so many are involved in IPL if not itself then auctions. Farce indeed that World #1 should fetch only £150k whilst Moeen fetches £700k and Tom Curran £525k - no I'm not into IPL, just happened to flick through teletext and get some (non) "news" on the subject which ties in with rotation and resting/wellbeing.

Not of course to mention any risks of injury playing, not sure who is on the old central contracts malarkey or whether that counts for much with such selection policies and practices
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