England in India Feb 2021

[sanskritsimon]

Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora

... Leach 12 matches 44 wickets at 30.5 economy 2.94 and strike rate 62

Archer 11 matches 38 wickets at 31.1 economy of 2.95 and strike rate of 63

So incredibly you could not split them based on that ...

Don't be sensible. Archer is gorgeous and lithe and bowls at the speed of light. He terrifies batsmen and nearly killed Steve Smith. Plus twenty points for being fast. Leach on the other hand is a specky four-eyes with a mysterious disease, and more to the point bowls really slowly. Minus twenty points for being a sinner.

[Jock McTuffnel v3]

Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora

The bit re neither Bess or leach being close to the seamers is quite interesting g because that is what I thought. It made me wonder how archer and leach’s numbers stack up.

They are remarkably similar.

Leach 12 matches 44 wickets at 30.5 economy 2.94 and strike rate 62

Archer 11 matches 38 wickets at 31.1 economy of 2.95 and strike rate of 63

So incredibly you could not split them based on that. Obviously they have completely different roles in the side but we need to be careful saying spinners not close to pace men.

Not looking for a row. I am merely comparing the test records of two people who played pivotal roles in the ashes series and have played about the same number of tests.

2/3rds of Leach's Test wickets are against Sri Lanka - dust bowl 2nd tier opponent bully ?

Their records against India are identical mind you.

[Ali TT]

Originally Posted by sanskritsimon

Don't be sensible. Archer is gorgeous and lithe and bowls at the speed of light. He terrifies batsmen and nearly killed Steve Smith. Plus twenty points for being fast. Leach on the other hand is a specky four-eyes with a mysterious disease, and more to the point bowls really slowly. Minus twenty points for being a sinner.

Although in the eyes of the selectors and captain, both have been treated with mistrust.

[tigertiger]

Originally Posted by tigertiger

My understanding is that the hotstar service is added to disney+ on Feb 23rd (3rd test time). So potentially the 3rd/4th tests could be on disney+.

Hotstar itself is available in the UK at £5.99 per month.
https://www.hotstar.com/gb/subscribe/get-started

Waiting ...

Ignore all that. Hotstar confirmed they do not have the rights in the UK.

[Sir Virgs and Zamora]

Originally Posted by Jock McTuffnel v3

2/3rds of Leach's Test wickets are against Sri Lanka - dust bowl 2nd tier opponent bully ?

Their records against India are identical mind you.

Similarly poor vs New Zealand too. Archer did very well in the ashes taking 22 at 20 whereas leach only took 12 at 26.

For a fair comparison we should look at comparable people in the oppo.

Lyon compared to leach took wickets at over 30 and he benefited from 9 on a raging turner at edgbaston. Leach did much better when they both played.

Cummins also averaged 20 for aus taking 29 wickets.

[Chin Music]

Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora

Similarly poor vs New Zealand too. Archer did very well in the ashes taking 22 at 20 whereas leach only took 12 at 26.

For a fair comparison we should look at comparable people in the oppo.

Lyon compared to leach took wickets at over 30 and he benefited from 9 on a raging turner at edgbaston. Leach did much better when they both played.

Cummins also averaged 20 for aus taking 29 wickets.

Virgs, don't know if you have had the chance to listen to the Kimber podcast I linked to in the spinner conundrum thread. Kimber and Bunting rightly pointed out that both Archer and Leach were ill served in the way they were used in the 1st NZ test of 2019.

The reality is that Leach will get the four tests in India, barring a complete meltdown or injury but that Bess will be the sole spinner when England play at home, apart from a pitch where they might expect more turn late in a match.

[Michelle Fivefer]

Originally Posted by sanskritsimon

Don't be sensible. Archer is gorgeous and lithe and bowls at the speed of light. He terrifies batsmen and nearly killed Steve Smith. Plus twenty points for being fast. Leach on the other hand is a specky four-eyes with a mysterious disease, and more to the point bowls really slowly. Minus twenty points for being a sinner.

Leach has either had his eyesight surgically restored or he was wearing contacts. Didn’t see any specs.

[Sir Virgs and Zamora]

Originally Posted by Chin Music

Virgs, don't know if you have had the chance to listen to the Kimber podcast I linked to in the spinner conundrum thread. Kimber and Bunting rightly pointed out that both Archer and Leach were ill served in the way they were used in the 1st NZ test of 2019.

The reality is that Leach will get the four tests in India, barring a complete meltdown or injury but that Bess will be the sole spinner when England play at home, apart from a pitch where they might expect more turn late in a match.

I have not heard that one. I suspect you might be right but time will tell re bess because if he can’t bowl economically at home then he could be dropped. I think his batting can improve far more than his bowling so he might become similar to moeen (when he was fun with the bat).

Suits me though. Leach will be available for somerset. He has signed a new deal. I think it is four years. Annoyingly the really promising spin bowler we have (goldsworthy) is also SLA. He is going to be very good, I think. I just hope he gets to play.

[Jock McTuffnel v3]

Originally Posted by Chin Music

The reality is that Leach will get the four tests in India, barring a complete meltdown or injury but that Bess will be the sole spinner when England play at home, apart from a pitch where they might expect more turn late in a match.

Not sure that 2 spinners is a given in India - we will see. Root may fill that role.

[Aidan11]

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer

Leach has either had his eyesight surgically restored or he was wearing contacts. Didn’t see any specs.

He was wearing specs while batting.

[Chin Music]

Originally Posted by Jock McTuffnel v3

Not sure that 2 spinners is a given in India - we will see. Root may fill that role.

The reality is that if your main spinners happen not to be particularly big spinners of the ball, they will likely have similar success in India to what medium fast bowlers tend to have in Australia......

[1000yardstare]

How difficult is it going to be for the England players to stay in their hotel rooms for 6 days.

[Ali TT]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

How difficult is it going to be for the England players to stay in their hotel rooms for 6 days.

Wouldn't it be 14 if they were playing in Australia?

[Sir Coolerking]

Originally Posted by Ali TT

Wouldn't it be 14 if they were playing in Australia?

Elite sportsmen are allowed out to train in Australia 5 hours a day. The problem was that positive cases were found on the flights transferring the tennis players in and that meant they lost their training time.

[Jock McTuffnel v3]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

How difficult is it going to be for the England players to stay in their hotel rooms for 6 days.

Will be a lot of Fortnite played.

[1000yardstare]

Burns, Archer and Stokes should be training outside tomorrow. Stokes and Archer can practice their spin at Burns.

[square leg umpire]

Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora

The bit re neither Bess or leach being close to the seamers is quite interesting g because that is what I thought. It made me wonder how archer and leach’s numbers stack up.

They are remarkably similar.

Leach 12 matches 44 wickets at 30.5 economy 2.94 and strike rate 62

Archer 11 matches 38 wickets at 31.1 economy of 2.95 and strike rate of 63

So incredibly you could not split them based on that. Obviously they have completely different roles in the side but we need to be careful saying spinners not close to pace men.

Not looking for a row. I am merely comparing the test records of two people who played pivotal roles in the ashes series and have played about the same number of tests.

given the choice most sides would much sooner have Archer in their team than Leach though.

[Michelle Fivefer]

Originally Posted by Aidan11

He was wearing specs while batting.

Didn’t notice that but should have remembered from 2019.

[Sir Virgs and Zamora]

Originally Posted by square leg umpire

given the choice most sides would much sooner have Archer in their team than Leach though.

On a raging Turner with no pace?

[Ali TT]

Originally Posted by Sir Coolerking

Elite sportsmen are allowed out to train in Australia 5 hours a day. The problem was that positive cases were found on the flights transferring the tennis players in and that meant they lost their training time.

Fair enough. I did see one tennis player playing a rally to herself in her hotel room.