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Old 11th October 2017, 14:57   #881
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It runs back further than the current crop of struggling twenty-somethings. Unless I'm mistaken, with the exception of Coles, Kent have failed to bring through any enduring semi-decent seamers since they very cleverly allowed David Masters to depart in 2002. Even Hunn and Haggett were acquired from other counties. Maybe The Garden is simply barren?

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Old 11th October 2017, 16:08   #882
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It runs back further than the current crop of struggling twenty-somethings. Unless I'm mistaken, with the exception of Coles, Kent have failed to bring through any enduring semi-decent seamers since they very cleverly allowed David Masters to depart in 2002.
Amjad Khan and Robbie Joseph.

Amjad took 347 f/c wkts , almost all of them for Kent bar a few for Sussex, and played a Test match for England v West Indies. Yet to his disgust Kent never capped him, which was part of the reason he left for Sussex.

Joseph took 188 f/c wkts, almost all of them for Kent , but he was never capped either - even after he took 55 championship wkts in Div One in 2008. He was pretty narked about that and let it be known...

They could have been a great opening pair but due to injuries only ever played a handful of matches together.

For example, in Joseph's best year in 2008 Amjad was only fit enough to play six games. He took 21 wkts at an avge of 20, though, which was enough to get him into the England Test squad in the Caribbean that winter.

Conversely when Amjad was fully fit in 2005 when he cleaned up 55 Div One batsmen, Joseph only managed to play one solitary game.

It was very frustrating because together they could have splendid.

Very mean-spirited of Kent not to cap them after the wkts they took, though.

Because you never knew from one season to the next if they were going to be fit (in 2007 they managed three games between the pair of them!), Kent didn't want to pay them the higher salaries they would have been entitled to as capped players...
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Old 11th October 2017, 16:48   #883
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Amjad Khan and Robbie Joseph.

Amjad took 347 f/c wkts , almost all of them for Kent bar a few for Sussex, and played a Test match for England v West Indies. Yet to his disgust Kent never capped him, which was part of the reason he left for Sussex.

Joseph took 188 f/c wkts, almost all of them for Kent , but he was never capped either - even after he took 55 championship wkts in Div One in 2008. He was pretty narked about that and let it be known...

They could have been a great opening pair but due to injuries only ever played a handful of matches together.

For example, in Joseph's best year in 2008 Amjad was only fit enough to play six games. He took 21 wkts at an avge of 20, though, which was enough to get him into the England Test squad in the Caribbean that winter.

Conversely when Amjad was fully fit in 2005 when he cleaned up 55 Div One batsmen, Joseph only managed to play one solitary game.

It was very frustrating because together they could have splendid.

Very mean-spirited of Kent not to cap them after the wkts they took, though.

Because you never knew from one season to the next if they were going to be fit (in 2007 they managed three games between the pair of them!), Kent didn't want to pay them the higher salaries they would have been entitled to as capped players...
But both were brought over to England rather than growing up in Wealden soil, which is my point. Not to suggest that all Kent players should be of the county but to question the dearth of serviceable seamers to come up through the county from scratch.
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Old 11th October 2017, 17:11   #884
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Well at least RJ went to school in Kent - Sutton Valence, I think. Although it's true that Richie Richardson arranged it for him as a scholarship.

Amjad came over from Denmark, of course. After he had left for Sussex he told me that Kent hadn't capped him because of his left-wing views and his support for the PLO, which the club objected to him expressing in public.

I must admit there can't be many who have taken close to 300 f/c wkts for the county and not been capped. Saggers came in and was capped after fewer than 100 wkts.
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Old 11th October 2017, 17:51   #885
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But both were brought over to England rather than growing up in Wealden soil, which is my point. Not to suggest that all Kent players should be of the county but to question the dearth of serviceable seamers to come up through the county from scratch.

It's a fair point - I grew up watching Kent bowlers such as Alan Brown (from Nottinghamshire), Norman Graham (Northumberland) and later Martin McCague (Northern Ireland via Australia) & Dean Headley (Middlesex), not to mention Martin Saggers (Norfolk via Durham). Along with overseas players Kent have always done well from domestic imports.

Those that are Kent born & bred (not designed to be a complete list!) from my cricket watching life include John Dye, Kevin Jarvis, Alan Igglesden, Richard Ellison, Mark Ealham and, of course, the late Graham Dilley.

But it's certainly true that the well seems to have dried up this century, with only the talented but under-performing Mat Coles being the only Kentish born/bred fast bowler.

And I'm not sure if there are any in the pipeline - a quick look at the Academy suggests more of the players there are batsmen than bowlers.
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Old 11th October 2017, 17:59   #886
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What's the club scene like in Kent? Are there no bowlers there?
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Old 11th October 2017, 18:00   #887
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It's a fair point - I grew up watching Kent bowlers such as Alan Brown (from Nottinghamshire), Norman Graham (Northumberland) and later Martin McCague (Northern Ireland via Australia) & Dean Headley (Middlesex), not to mention Martin Saggers (Norfolk via Durham). Along with overseas players Kent have always done well from domestic imports.

Those that are Kent born & bred (not designed to be a complete list!) from my cricket watching life include John Dye, Kevin Jarvis, Alan Igglesden, Richard Ellison, Mark Ealham and, of course, the late Graham Dilley.

But it's certainly true that the well seems to have dried up this century, with only the talented but under-performing Mat Coles being the only Kentish born/bred fast bowler.

And I'm not sure if there are any in the pipeline - a quick look at the Academy suggests more of the players there are batsmen than bowlers.
Yes, the batting stocks haven't been too bad over the past 15 years, with Denly, Northeast, DBD and Billings establishing themselves. Tomorrow, I'm meeting an old mate who, until fairly recently, bowled in the Kent League...I'll ask him what the seam bowling has been like there over the last decade or so.
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Old 11th October 2017, 18:11   #888
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Those that are Kent born & bred (not designed to be a complete list!) from my cricket watching life include John Dye, Kevin Jarvis, Alan Igglesden, Richard Ellison, Mark Ealham and, of course, the late Graham Dilley.
And the men in blazers in the committee room drove almost all of them out. Dye, Jarvis, Ealham and Dilley all left for other counties and Ellison drifted out of the game when he was still in his early 30s...
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Old 11th October 2017, 19:49   #889
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Yes, the batting stocks haven't been too bad over the past 15 years, with Denly, Northeast, DBD and Billings establishing themselves. Tomorrow, I'm meeting an old mate who, until fairly recently, bowled in the Kent League...I'll ask him what the seam bowling has been like there over the last decade or so.
Reminds me a bit of Sussex, who went for donkeys without producing a seamer after Lewry and Kirtley, then Hobden (sadly still missed), Whittingham, Garton and Sakande came through almost all at once. Plenty of keepers and spinners in that time, now we have none of those coming through really. Funny how you go through stages of having one or the other, I guess the key is to get one or two of each discipline developing at the same time.
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Old 19th October 2017, 17:52   #890
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The long rumoured move of Matt Coles to Essex has been confirmed:

http://www.kentcricket.co.uk/news/ma...s-joins-essex/

Not sure many Kent supporters will be too upset or sorry...esp. after his form this season, especially in the T20 and the second half of the CC season.
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Old 19th October 2017, 18:45   #891
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The long rumoured move of Matt Coles to Essex has been confirmed

Not sure many Kent supporters will be too upset or sorry...esp. after his form this season, especially in the T20 and the second half of the CC season.
Just shows what a bunch of sour-faced idiots some Kent supporters are if they are happy to see the back of the only bowler the county had with a bit of zip and venom and fire in his belly.

I've known Matt since he was 18 years old and he's a terrific lad and a matchwining bowler in all three formats.

This is a great move for him. When he rejoined Kent I remember gmdf and other Kent supporters saying he was in the "last chance saloon'" and gmdf even argued that he should not be given a full contract but engaged on a pay-as-you-play basis. Remember that , eh?

Anyway, so much for 'last chance saloon'. He's now moved from a team of chronic Div Two under-achievers with no ambition to join the champion county.

I'm happy for Matt - he loathes some of the stuffed shirts at Canterbury with a passion and he will be ecstatic about this move. But I'm desperately sad for Kent and fear for the county next season.

Stevens and Claydon to open the bowling with 77 years between them... followed by?

Nothing. And as Lear told Cordelia, nothing will come from nothing.
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Old 19th October 2017, 20:48   #892
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Old 20th October 2017, 08:50   #893
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Article here says that Coles had a year left on his contract, which does tend to suggest that Kent's patience with him was wearing thin: two suspensions (one by the ECB, one internal) in 2016 & an 'incident' in the West Indies earlier this year maybe have been simply too much.

Add to that his loss of form in 2017 (despite having had the benefit of Gillespie's coaching for the first half of the season, and being able to bowl in tandem with two international bowlers, Parnell & Milne, and also the excellent Harris), and faced with the possibility of having a disgruntled player should they have refused to release him, may have swayed the decision.

http://www.espn.co.uk/cricket/story/...hampions-essex

Kent fans will be enthused by the mention of Morne Morkel as a possible replacement...but I doubt any of us will be counting our chickens yet!
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Old 20th October 2017, 10:18   #894
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From what I hear it was more a case of Coles' patience wearing thin with Kent.

Coles has been coveted and head-hunted by the best side in the country - and yet supporters of one of the weakest sides in the country claim they are glad to see him go?

Go figure.

I suspect most rational Kent supporters will be very disappointed by his departure , which is a serious blow to Kent's hopes of winning anything...
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Old 20th October 2017, 10:39   #895
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It is obvious that Matt Coles is an extremely talented cricketer. However it appears that things were not right between him and the club and in that case a move is probably the best for both parties. He will be an asset to Essex and am sure a fresh challenge will reinvigorate him. As for Kent his departure means that the club must recruit as they are seriously short of bowling options. By the start of next season the squad may look a lot stronger - it has too otherwise they have no chance of success. I am sure they know that as well.
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Old 20th October 2017, 10:55   #896
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Agreed, Life of Riley. Kent need to sign not one but three seamers if they are to be competitve.

Despite the sneering attitude of the Kent CEO over Lancashire's reliance on Kolpaks and overseas signings, he's going to have to eat his words because the quality seamers Kent needs are simply not available on the domestic market.

One will have to be a Kolpak and another an overseas international. I'd expect both to come from SA, as Allan Donald is allegedly due to arrive at last as bowling coach. Hopefully Kent can then persuade MIddx to release Harris as the third.

Allowing Viljoen to slip through their hands and to be outbid for his services by Derbyshire now looks like a very bad decision indeed.
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Old 20th October 2017, 11:35   #897
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Have to agree that in Kent's present position the need for quality bowlers means that a Kolpak signing is probably the best option. Cannot see Harris coming to Kent but would certainly welcome it if he did! Our other ray of hope is that when Allan Donald arrives he can improve the bowlers we already have and generally give the club a shake up which seems to be needed. Essex underperformed for years under Grayson but since Silverwood took over things have changed dramatically.
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Old 20th October 2017, 11:58   #898
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Essex underperformed for years under Grayson but since Silverwood took over things have changed dramatically.
Plus the elevation of Ten Doeschate to skipper. I know he was an established member of the team but still a semi-outsider in that he didn't come up through all the ranks and had other close-season allegiances.

I've been suggesting for some years that this may be a problem with Kent - the captain is always somebody who has been around the club all his life. Great if you're seeking to maintain a successful run; not so good if you're looking to escape from years of mediocrity. There have been several examples of counties biting the bullet and handing the reins to an outsider to bring marked improvement - Adams at Sussex, Benkenstein at Durham, Fleming at Notts, Warne at Hants, Langer at Somerset. Franklin may have led Middx to relegation but he did also shepherd them to the title last year. An outsider brings in his own ideas and personality, unsullied by what has gone on before. It's true that Kent have brought in outsider coaches but I still don't think that's a match for the influence of the man on the field.

This is not to say I don't rate Northeast, rather that the job of shaking up a county club that's been failing for years might be beyond a chap who has been part of that period of failure.
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Old 20th October 2017, 12:07   #899
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Plus the elevation of Ten Doeschate to skipper. I know he was an established member of the team but still a semi-outsider in that he didn't come up through all the ranks and had other close-season allegiances.

I've been suggesting for some years that this may be a problem with Kent - the captain is always somebody who has been around the club all his life. Great if you're seeking to maintain a successful run; not so good if you're looking to escape from years of mediocrity. There have been several examples of counties biting the bullet and handing the reins to an outsider to bring marked improvement - Adams at Sussex, Benkenstein at Durham, Fleming at Notts, Warne at Hants, Langer at Somerset. Franklin may have led Middx to relegation but he did also shepherd them to the title last year. An outsider brings in his own ideas and personality, unsullied by what has gone on before. It's true that Kent have brought in outsider coaches but I still don't think that's a match for the influence of the man on the field.

This is not to say I don't rate Northeast, rather that the job of shaking up a county club that's been failing for years might be beyond a chap who has been part of that period of failure.
RtD of course had plenty of IPL experience.
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Old 20th October 2017, 12:20   #900
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his loss of form in 2017
And yet leading wicket-taker in one of the white ball comps and second leading wicket-taker with the red ball?

Between them Coles, Harris, Milne and Parnell took 96 wks across the different formats (exactly half of them - 48 - to Coles).

Seems none of them will be at Canterbury next season, so Kent will need to find close to 100 wkts from somewhere just to repeat the mediocre season they had in 2017.

To do any better than that and actually win something, they're going to need to find 150 wickets plus. Which is why they will need to sign three new seamers, not one.

Agree with So77 about Northeast. Despite personal success, he has only ever known failure as a team man.

Kent desperately needs a captain who knows what it takes to be a winner. A take-no-prisoners, gnarled overseas hard man of the calibre of some of those So77 lists would do fine.
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