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Old 17th February 2012, 16:36   #1001
High Druid Nathan Barley
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If Grayson and Foster knew, but did nothing, then they should both be reomved from their positions of authority at the club. It's not as if there hasn't been enough publicity over the past decade about reporting any such advances.
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Old 17th February 2012, 17:57   #1002
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Problem is that the opening gambit in "approaching" someone is likely to be (slipped into casual conversation): "Mate, if you knew you could make a lot of money by fixing a certain event to happen in a game, but not throw the game, would you?" Answer: "No, mate, I would never do that" (moves on to next person later).

Like if a work colleague says to someone in the pub on a Friday, "Mate, if you could siphon off 10,000 from the company accounts and get away with it, would you?" He says "no way", but doesn't march into the boss' office at 9am on Monday morning and tell him he thinks X is planning to defraud the company.

Obviously when the person is then dismissed for fraud 6 months later he realises he actually meant it and "approached" him.
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Old 17th February 2012, 19:04   #1003
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Problem is that the opening gambit in "approaching" someone is likely to be (slipped into casual conversation): "Mate, if you knew you could make a lot of money by fixing a certain event to happen in a game, but not throw the game, would you?" Answer: "No, mate, I would never do that" (moves on to next person later).

Like if a work colleague says to someone in the pub on a Friday, "Mate, if you could siphon off 10,000 from the company accounts and get away with it, would you?" He says "no way", but doesn't march into the boss' office at 9am on Monday morning and tell him he thinks X is planning to defraud the company.

Obviously when the person is then dismissed for fraud 6 months later he realises he actually meant it and "approached" him.
come off it. You are joking right? All players are told about match fixing and to report it. Do you think they are that stupid?
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Old 17th February 2012, 19:23   #1004
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come off it. You are joking right? All players are told about match fixing and to report it. Do you think they are that stupid?
It's not a matter of being stupid.

If the matter is brought up with them in a very casual manner, they may just think the person is chatting about it.

If they report such an "encounter", and the club ask the guy in question, then what happens if he flies off the handle and says "Oh, for god's sake, I don't believe this, I was just talking about how easy it would be to fix part of a game..." He then goes into the dressing room and says: "You won't believe what xxx just went and did - tried to get me sacked." The person who reported it then ends up out in the cold.

I'm certainly not joking, just trying to see how the situation could well play out and how it would develop - how the go-between would initially sound out a player by initially bringing it up in "innocent" conversation. Because I certainly can't believe someone would just go up to a player and say "Hey, mate, do you want to make 9,000? All you have to do is..."
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Old 17th February 2012, 19:36   #1005
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Quote:
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come off it. You are joking right? All players are told about match fixing and to report it. Do you think they are that stupid?
p.s. Well in Westfield's case he really was that "stupid" not only not to report but to actually go and do it!
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Old 17th February 2012, 19:58   #1006
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Problem is that the opening gambit in "approaching" someone is likely to be (slipped into casual conversation): "Mate, if you knew you could make a lot of money by fixing a certain event to happen in a game, but not throw the game, would you?" Answer: "No, mate, I would never do that" (moves on to next person later).

Like if a work colleague says to someone in the pub on a Friday, "Mate, if you could siphon off 10,000 from the company accounts and get away with it, would you?" He says "no way", but doesn't march into the boss' office at 9am on Monday morning and tell him he thinks X is planning to defraud the company.

Obviously when the person is then dismissed for fraud 6 months later he realises he actually meant it and "approached" him.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
come off it. You are joking right? All players are told about match fixing and to report it. Do you think they are that stupid?
This took place in 2009. The players were told to report things in 2010.

Only after instructions in 2010 from the players' union, the Professional Cricketers' Association, to report any suspicious behaviour did attitudes change.

Anyway, well done Tony Palladino
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Old 17th February 2012, 20:36   #1007
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Indeed re Palladino.

But why was he so perceptive where the coach and captain werent?
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Old 17th February 2012, 20:45   #1008
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It's not a matter of being stupid.

If the matter is brought up with them in a very casual manner, they may just think the person is chatting about it.

If they report such an "encounter", and the club ask the guy in question, then what happens if he flies off the handle and says "Oh, for god's sake, I don't believe this, I was just talking about how easy it would be to fix part of a game..." He then goes into the dressing room and says: "You won't believe what xxx just went and did - tried to get me sacked." The person who reported it then ends up out in the cold.

I'm certainly not joking, just trying to see how the situation could well play out and how it would develop - how the go-between would initially sound out a player by initially bringing it up in "innocent" conversation. Because I certainly can't believe someone would just go up to a player and say "Hey, mate, do you want to make 9,000? All you have to do is..."

Ok - but they were arrested on 14 May 2010. Presumably this would have alerted the powers that be that the joke was on them.

So why, in August, 2010 as I watching Kaneria play at Edgbaston?
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Old 17th February 2012, 21:01   #1009
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Indeed re Palladino.

But why was he so perceptive where the coach and captain werent?

Palladino only reported it after Westfield admitted to him about the spot fixing and showed him the money he had earned . As far as I have read none of the other players or coach knew that anyone had actually agreed to do anything.
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Old 17th February 2012, 21:13   #1010
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So players need to be told when something fishy is done to report it. Maybe they are that stupid. If you can't put two and two together you are an idiot. In addition if someone made noises about anything bent like that at work I would raise it. To laugh of a suggestion of fixing when players have been banned for it or had reputations damaged is odd. To do so from a test player is even worse.
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Old 17th February 2012, 21:15   #1011
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Fair enough, grim though it is.
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Old 17th February 2012, 21:15   #1012
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Reading further about this it seems that it took Palladino over 6 months to report it. The version on cricinfo.

The key evidence in the case was the testimony of his then team-mate Tony Palladino. After a night out together a few days after the Durham game, the two men returned to Westfield's house in Chelmsford, where Palladino was shown a plastic bag full of 50 notes. The amount was described by Palladino as "the most money he had ever seen."

Westfield allegedly admitted to Palladino that Kaneria was the go-between. According to Palladino, Westfield told him that Kaneria had a friend who would give him money if he agreed to concede a certain amount of runs from an over in a given match. Kaneria allegedly was to receive a fee of 4,000 for securing Westfield's involvement.


After Westfield's late-night revelation in 2009, Palladino told two junior team-mates Adam Wheater and Chris Wright. When Westfield was confronted by Wheater, however, he denied the story.

By March 2010 - six months after the event - the rumours had reached Masters, one of the senior players, who informed Pettini. Only after instructions in 2010 from the players' union, the Professional Cricketers' Association, to report any suspicious behaviour did attitudes change. The matter was reported to the ECB and Westfield was arrested by Essex police. Fearing for the future of his career, he denied the charges right up until December 2011, when he had a change of heart, prompting his guilty plea in January.
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Old 17th February 2012, 21:51   #1013
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Indeed re Palladino.

But why was he so perceptive where the coach and captain werent?
And why was Palladino shown the door.....
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Old 17th February 2012, 21:59   #1014
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Indeed re Palladino.

But why was he so perceptive where the coach and captain werent?
I expect the coach and captain would have been similarly perceptive if they'd too been shown the pile of money.
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Old 17th February 2012, 22:16   #1015
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Why was Kaneria still playing for Essex on August 28th 2010?
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Old 17th February 2012, 22:31   #1016
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Why was Kaneria still playing for Essex on August 28th 2010?
There are two approaches you can take: ban someone when they are accused of something, or maintain the innocent until proven guilty stance.

I think either approach is legitimate so long as it is applied consistently.

Essex appear to take the latter approach, as players played when (falsely) accused of rape.
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Old 18th February 2012, 08:47   #1017
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I expect the coach and captain would have been similarly perceptive if they'd too been shown the pile of money.
Well, EXACTLY.
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Old 18th February 2012, 10:08   #1018
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Problem is that the opening gambit in "approaching" someone is likely to be (slipped into casual conversation): "Mate, if you knew you could make a lot of money by fixing a certain event to happen in a game, but not throw the game, would you?" Answer: "No, mate, I would never do that" (moves on to next person later).

Like if a work colleague says to someone in the pub on a Friday, "Mate, if you could siphon off 10,000 from the company accounts and get away with it, would you?" He says "no way", but doesn't march into the boss' office at 9am on Monday morning and tell him he thinks X is planning to defraud the company.

Obviously when the person is then dismissed for fraud 6 months later he realises he actually meant it and "approached" him.
At most places I've worked, I've known folks, including myself, indulge in fantasy talk about ways of ripping off the company. I've always thought of it as nothing more than an entirely natural method through which the impotent put-upon worker copes with his lot, a la Reggie Perrin imaging terrible ways of harming CJ.
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Old 18th February 2012, 10:11   #1019
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At most places I've worked, I've known folks, including myself, indulge in fantasy talk about ways of ripping off the company. I've always thought of it as nothing more than an entirely natural method through which the impotent put-upon worker copes with his lot, a la Reggie Perrin imaging terrible ways of harming CJ.
It's difficult to gauge at the end of the day. I'm fairly certain that there will be an inquiry as to the developments of this, there simply has to be for the sake of Essex, yet I highly doubt that much will come of it as to regards the conduct of other players unless there is real cause to suspect that they've actually been duplicitous in this whole affair.
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Old 18th February 2012, 10:30   #1020
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There are two approaches you can take: ban someone when they are accused of something, or maintain the innocent until proven guilty stance.I think either approach is legitimate so long as it is applied consistently.

Essex appear to take the latter approach, as players played when (falsely) accused of rape.
As with John Terry losing the England captaincy, not playing a player in these circumstances isnt saying hes guilty.

The rape allegations and circumstances seem different in every way to me.

Why wasnt his contract renewed after 2010 as, presumably, in Essex' terms he is still innocent today?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/554089.html

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