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Old 9th March 2017, 18:23   #21
D/L
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As the nominations are for bowlers, should Muralitharan be featured?
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smart....
Actually, a reasonable question if one knows the laws of the game.
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Old 9th March 2017, 19:16   #22
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With regards to a more left-field selection to add to the ranks of suggested spinners, Herath has to be the standout spinner from his generation in terms of his overall career record and a guy who's done it everywhere but is often underappreciated. He's a really wily bowler and I think everyone loves watching him play, but like Anderson is probably just a touch behind the very top level of bowlers. Certainly not many spinners bar the big two who've outperformed him, though.
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Old 10th March 2017, 17:55   #23
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With regards to a more left-field selection to add to the ranks of suggested spinners, Herath has to be the standout spinner from his generation in terms of his overall career record and a guy who's done it everywhere but is often underappreciated. He's a really wily bowler and I think everyone loves watching him play, but like Anderson is probably just a touch behind the very top level of bowlers. Certainly not many spinners bar the big two who've outperformed him, though.
Herath bowling in the late 90s right? But he only really become SL prmeier spinner after Murali retired, so what exactly counts as his generation?

If we're talking the last 10 years, I'd rate Ajmal higher and then Herath and then Swann on skill level but in terms of sheer numbers, then Herath does get the nod. Then again, I've only mostly seen him perform well on turners and he isn't a worrisome sight for batsmen in ODIs. Not as muc has Ajmal.


It's a toughy, could be he top 10 across the last 47 years?
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Old 10th March 2017, 19:38   #24
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Herath bowling in the late 90s right? But he only really become SL prmeier spinner after Murali retired, so what exactly counts as his generation?

If we're talking the last 10 years, I'd rate Ajmal higher and then Herath and then Swann on skill level but in terms of sheer numbers, then Herath does get the nod. Then again, I've only mostly seen him perform well on turners and he isn't a worrisome sight for batsmen in ODIs. Not as muc has Ajmal.


It's a toughy, could be he top 10 across the last 47 years?
Certainly wouldn't put him as a top 10 bowler in the time frame but when racking my brains for standout spinners beyond the obvious, he's my favourite. As for his generation, I'd go for those still playing or retired in the last 4 or 5 years - career-wise rather than age.

The argument about skill level vs longevity is always a tough one - often cited in football, as well, by fans of (the first) Ronaldo and Ronaldinho whose peaks were short but exceptional. I tend to favour someone who performs for slightly longer in terms of all-time discussions so would discount Ajmal for that reason and probably Swann too. The former had his chucking issues, too, which drag him down.

For the last few years, though, Herath has been the only decent bowler in a really weak attack but has carried the load brilliantly - in 2016 he averaged 18.92 with the ball. Since 2011 he's had one full year averaging over 30. And his record against every test nation bar India is good. And he's nearly at 1000 FC wickets which is a fine achievement for anyone to be able to boast of.
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Old 10th March 2017, 20:13   #25
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Originally Posted by billyguntheballs View Post
Herath bowling in the late 90s right? But he only really become SL prmeier spinner after Murali retired, so what exactly counts as his generation?

If we're talking the last 10 years, I'd rate Ajmal higher and then Herath and then Swann on skill level but in terms of sheer numbers, then Herath does get the nod. Then again, I've only mostly seen him perform well on turners and he isn't a worrisome sight for batsmen in ODIs. Not as muc has Ajmal.

It's a toughy, could be he top 10 across the last 47 years?
Not for me, I think Kumble was better than him. A good bowler but I expect his average is helped by games against lesser opposition in much the same way Murali's was. He doesn't average less than 30 in any country other than Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Zimbabwe.
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Old 10th March 2017, 21:04   #26
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These are my top bowlers based on players I have seen live.

Warne
McGrath
Donald
Walsh
Ambrose
Anderson
Pollock
Murali

I would have like to have seen Whispering death, Botham and Marshall live in their pomp.
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Old 11th March 2017, 07:48   #27
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Certainly wouldn't put him as a top 10 bowler in the time frame but when racking my brains for standout spinners beyond the obvious, he's my favourite. As for his generation, I'd go for those still playing or retired in the last 4 or 5 years - career-wise rather than age.

The argument about skill level vs longevity is always a tough one - often cited in football, as well, by fans of (the first) Ronaldo and Ronaldinho whose peaks were short but exceptional. I tend to favour someone who performs for slightly longer in terms of all-time discussions so would discount Ajmal for that reason and probably Swann too. The former had his chucking issues, too, which drag him down.

For the last few years, though, Herath has been the only decent bowler in a really weak attack but has carried the load brilliantly - in 2016 he averaged 18.92 with the ball. Since 2011 he's had one full year averaging over 30. And his record against every test nation bar India is good. And he's nearly at 1000 FC wickets which is a fine achievement for anyone to be able to boast of.
I think Herath played one test in the 90s but I believe that means he is the only player from the last millennium still going.

He's a personal favourite of mine as he's one of those more relatable guys for a watching fan, bit of a throwback to a more amateur era. Isn't he still a bank manager?

Never a great fan of Ajmal. Obvious chucker but also played few games outside the SC, so always felt his record is somewhat inflated.
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Old 11th March 2017, 11:55   #28
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Certainly wouldn't put him as a top 10 bowler in the time frame but when racking my brains for standout spinners beyond the obvious, he's my favourite. As for his generation, I'd go for those still playing or retired in the last 4 or 5 years - career-wise rather than age.

The argument about skill level vs longevity is always a tough one - often cited in football, as well, by fans of (the first) Ronaldo and Ronaldinho whose peaks were short but exceptional. I tend to favour someone who performs for slightly longer in terms of all-time discussions so would discount Ajmal for that reason and probably Swann too. The former had his chucking issues, too, which drag him down.

For the last few years, though, Herath has been the only decent bowler in a really weak attack but has carried the load brilliantly - in 2016 he averaged 18.92 with the ball. Since 2011 he's had one full year averaging over 30. And his record against every test nation bar India is good. And he's nearly at 1000 FC wickets which is a fine achievement for anyone to be able to boast of.
The Ajmal chucking issue wasn't an issue until certain elements in the ICC decided to make it one, considering his medical exemption went from vali one day, to invalid the next. It really was a dishonest destruction of a man verging on being a great bowler.

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These are my top bowlers based on players I have seen live.

Warne
McGrath
Donald
Walsh
Ambrose
Anderson
Pollock
Murali

I would have like to have seen Whispering death, Botham and Marshall live in their pomp.
Good stuff!

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I think Herath played one test in the 90s but I believe that means he is the only player from the last millennium still going.

He's a personal favourite of mine as he's one of those more relatable guys for a watching fan, bit of a throwback to a more amateur era. Isn't he still a bank manager?

Never a great fan of Ajmal. Obvious chucker but also played few games outside the SC, so always felt his record is somewhat inflated.
Not playing much outside teh sub cont isnt really something he controlled and when he was in his pomp, he tricked England in ENgland and did the same to the Windies.

And let's not ignor he was probably the greatest ODI/t20 bowler of his day. At a time when to many ODI bowlers are averaging cloer to 30 he was averaging almost 22...in the age of small boundaries, huge bats and flat pitches. Against the best ODI sides of his time, he averaged 25 or under...really under.
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Old 11th March 2017, 11:57   #29
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The Ajmal chucking issue wasn't an issue until certain elements in the ICC decided to make it one, considering his medical exemption went from vali one day, to invalid the next. It really was a dishonest destruction of a man verging on being a great bowler. ...
No, he was a chucker, just like Muralitharan.
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Old 11th March 2017, 14:50   #30
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The Ajmal chucking issue wasn't an issue until certain elements in the ICC decided to make it one, considering his medical exemption went from vali one day, to invalid the next. It really was a dishonest destruction of a man verging on being a great bowler.



Good stuff!



Not playing much outside teh sub cont isnt really something he controlled and when he was in his pomp, he tricked England in ENgland and did the same to the Windies.

And let's not ignor he was probably the greatest ODI/t20 bowler of his day. At a time when to many ODI bowlers are averaging cloer to 30 he was averaging almost 22...in the age of small boundaries, huge bats and flat pitches. Against the best ODI sides of his time, he averaged 25 or under...really under.
I think he was fortunate to play as many tests as he did rather than unlucky he couldn't play more. But even accepting he had a legitimate action the number of tests he did play is really too small a sample, and big gaps having played so few tests in places like Australia, New Zealand and South Africa where spinners tend to struggle.

He did indeed have a great record in limited overs.
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Old 11th March 2017, 14:57   #31
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No, he was a chucker, just like Muralitharan.
And when they change the definition of "cretin" such that it includes everyone in Yorkshire, you'll be a cretin.
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Old 11th March 2017, 15:02   #32
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Dennis Lillee
Richard Hadlee
Michael Holding
Joel Garner
Malcolm Marshall
Imran Khan
Bob Willis
Ian Botham
Shane Warne
Muralitheran
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Old 11th March 2017, 18:30   #33
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And when they change the definition of "cretin" such that it includes everyone in Yorkshire, you'll be a cretin.
Not in any way saying that D/L is a cretin, but wouldn't a more accurate analogy go a bit like...

Realise there is one prominent "cretin" in Yorkshire. Perform (ahem/wink wink) "scientific study" that finds almost everyone is a cretin anyway (including grainy 1930's vintage cretins) so change the definition of "cretin" so that there is basically no such thing any more. Then when prominent "cretin" retires, realise said study was cornswaggle and the place is starting to be over run with apparent "cretins", so ignore the lot and unofficially go back to previous definition of "cretin"?

Or something like that.
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Old 11th March 2017, 20:05   #34
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Not in any way saying that D/L is a cretin, but wouldn't a more accurate analogy go a bit like...

Realise there is one prominent "cretin" in Yorkshire. Perform (ahem/wink wink) "scientific study" that finds almost everyone is a cretin anyway (including grainy 1930's vintage cretins) so change the definition of "cretin" so that there is basically no such thing any more. Then when prominent "cretin" retires, realise said study was cornswaggle and the place is starting to be over run with apparent "cretins", so ignore the lot and unofficially go back to previous definition of "cretin"?

Or something like that.
Brilliant use of the word "cornswaggle". But there's no point in pretending that Murali is unique here. Just before the last World Cup in Australia, didn't the Australians engineer it so that all the spin bowlers in the world who Australian batsmen were useless against were suddenly banned?
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Old 12th March 2017, 01:36   #35
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Brilliant use of the word "cornswaggle". But there's no point in pretending that Murali is unique here. Just before the last World Cup in Australia, didn't the Australians engineer it so that all the spin bowlers in the world who Australian batsmen were useless against were suddenly banned?
Perhaps, but I don't see how, as that would literally amount to banning every spin bowler and every spin "bowler" in the world.
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Old 12th March 2017, 13:32   #36
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Brilliant use of the word "cornswaggle". But there's no point in pretending that Murali is unique here. Just before the last World Cup in Australia, didn't the Australians engineer it so that all the spin bowlers in the world who Australian batsmen were useless against were suddenly banned?
It did happen just like that. I can't believe just how deceitful the whole thing was and a lot of the reporting, surrounding Ajmal in particular, was horrible and dishonest.
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Old 12th March 2017, 13:33   #37
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Dennis Lillee
Richard Hadlee
Michael Holding
Joel Garner
Malcolm Marshall
Imran Khan
Bob Willis
Ian Botham
Shane Warne
Muralitheran
Good to see the lists, kep em coming
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Old 12th March 2017, 14:14   #38
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No, he was a chucker, just like Muralitharan.
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And when they change the definition of "cretin" such that it includes everyone in Yorkshire, you'll be a cretin.
Classy.

I notice you do not include your location. I'm guessing La-La Land.
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Old 12th March 2017, 14:21   #39
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Not in any way saying that D/L is a cretin, but wouldn't a more accurate analogy go a bit like...

Realise there is one prominent "cretin" in Yorkshire. Perform (ahem/wink wink) "scientific study" that finds almost everyone is a cretin anyway (including grainy 1930's vintage cretins) so change the definition of "cretin" so that there is basically no such thing any more. Then when prominent "cretin" retires, realise said study was cornswaggle and the place is starting to be over run with apparent "cretins", so ignore the lot and unofficially go back to previous definition of "cretin"?

Or something like that.
Nice one.

"Cornswaggle" is a new one on me. Is its meaning at all to do with what may be produced, in their own self-interest, by those wishing to bamboozle others?
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Old 12th March 2017, 14:24   #40
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...Just before the last World Cup in Australia, didn't the Australians engineer it so that all the spin bowlers in the world who Australian batsmen were useless against were suddenly banned?
I don't think so. That may just be the warped view of someone all bitter and twisted about something or other.
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