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Old 21st December 2017, 01:58   #801
thedon
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This is how to take a confident and more fancied opposition, remove any hopes they might have had from day 2 of the first match (in a five match series). Then after utterly demoralising them stand back and watch who jumps off the ship. Without having to do anything to the pitches, other than make them standard good batting strips. Luckily for England they sorted it, was all KP's fault lol.

Could we be looking at a 4th Ashes whitewash (all in favour of Aus of course)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E...4_Ashes_series
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Old 21st December 2017, 08:10   #802
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Could we be looking at a 4th Ashes whitewash (all in favour of Aus of course)?
I don't see how England are going to realistically take 20 wickets, and given the state of their batting at the moment they're 6 out all out. It will take a mammoth effort from the top order to get a score which enables them to compete for a win, or at the very least draw. And the odds are not in their favour. We're most likely looking at a 3rd whitewash in just over a decade. That will never happen again. Another record owned by Alistair Cook.
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Old 21st December 2017, 09:44   #803
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The whole point you seem to be overlooking. You seem to think a team that loses 6 for 30 on a batting highway suddenly turn into Jack Hobbs when the ball darts around. Unlikely.

They've generally been competitive series though. They haven't been close to the whitewashes, especially the one sided series we had here last time. When the pitches have been doctored for England and they have won the toss, some matches have been one sided. Fair enough. While our inexperienced quicks were quite poor when the ball started moving around last time (and in general), I wouldn't count on that happening regularly. If we win the toss England's batsmen will struggle too. Looking forward to that, no doubt they'll try it again when they feel desperate and eventually lose the toss.
I think it's more that when the ball darts around (and the Dukes does more than the Kookaburra) Smith turns into a rabbit and it becomes a level playing field on which his technique suddenly becomes exposed.

In 2015 there were 3 matches on seaming pitches, all 3 were comfortable wins for England (and Aus won the toss for one of those). Anderson didn't play in one, Wood, Finn and Stokes all took a decent amount of wickets in the series. The Aussie bowling line up was Starc, Hazlewood, Johnson, M Marsh and Lyon (not a lot has changed really). If the London pitches had been the same (and it's only the desire to rake in as much cash over 5 days that they weren't) it would've been 5-0.

There's no reason why we should be confident for 2019 if we create the right pitches.
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Old 21st December 2017, 09:52   #804
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Originally Posted by Sir Coolerking View Post
I think it's more that when the ball darts around (and the Dukes does more than the Kookaburra) Smith turns into a rabbit and it becomes a level playing field on which his technique suddenly becomes exposed.

In 2015 there were 3 matches on seaming pitches, all 3 were comfortable wins for England (and Aus won the toss for one of those). Anderson didn't play in one, Wood, Finn and Stokes all took a decent amount of wickets in the series. The Aussie bowling line up was Starc, Hazlewood, Johnson, M Marsh and Lyon (not a lot has changed really). If the London pitches had been the same (and it's only the desire to rake in as much cash over 5 days that they weren't) it would've been 5-0.

There's no reason why we should be confident for 2019 if we create the right pitches.
True, there isn't one side in international cricket that I'd say would be a banker to go away to one of the other major nations and win, bar the odd one-off like England in South Africa, South Africa in Australia. I'd still make England heavy favourites at home against just about anyone including the next Ashes.
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Old 21st December 2017, 11:09   #805
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I wonder what changes are in store for the MCG - I suspect T Curran will make his debut in place of C Overton.
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Old 21st December 2017, 16:12   #806
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Originally Posted by Psyduck View Post
I wonder what changes are in store for the MCG - I suspect T Curran will make his debut in place of C Overton.
Yes that will be the only change.

One more chance for everyone that isn't injured.

Then of course in the last test we have to pick our strongest unchanged team to avoid the 5-0...

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Old 21st December 2017, 16:42   #807
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I wonder what changes are in store for the MCG - I suspect T Curran will make his debut in place of C Overton.
I hope not - he is hardly above medium pace
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Old 21st December 2017, 20:10   #808
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Are they not going to bother risking Wood then? I suppose there’s no point with the series gone. I think Tom Curran has improved a lot in the last year. Definitely a bit quicker (similar pace to Overton). As long as it’s not Jake Ball, I’ll be happy. He’s absolutely sh*t*.

I can’t make my mind up on what England should do with Cook and Broad. You’d like to think that they’d be the ones to call time on their career. I have a feeling Cook will retire in Sydney. The good news for Broad is, he is still clearly our second best bowler. He’s economical, and when the ball moves, he’s deadly. Luckily for him, England’s next tour is in NZ during their late summer. He’ll probably do alright there.

1. Stoneman
2. Gubbins/Robson/Hameed/Lyth/Bell-Drummond/Jennings
3. Vince
4. Root
5. Malan
6. Stokes
7. Bairstow
8. Ali
9. Woakes
10. Broad
11. Anderson

I couldn’t even guess who they’d try and replace Cook with. Jennings still does alright for the Lions, but was absolutely useless during the summer. Hameed might get another go despite his poor season, given that he did well in an England shirt. Have a feeling though that Gubbins might get a chance. A lot of pundits rate him and he’s consistently picked in the Lions squad.

Ali probably just has enough credit in the bank and there’s also the question of ‘do we have a good spinner to replace him?’ I wouldn’t be against them just giving Crane a go and seeing how it works out. A fully fit Wood mightget in ahead of Woakes or Broad. Particularly if the pitch looks flat.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 00:08   #809
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On the Ashes review Bob Willis thinks Broad has got his wrist position wrong.
He puts it down to last years tour of India and Bangladesh where he had to try a lot of variations such as cutters on the dustbowls there. Doesn't seem to have returned to normal.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 02:13   #810
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True, there isn't one side in international cricket that I'd say would be a banker to go away to one of the other major nations and win, bar the odd one-off like England in South Africa, South Africa in Australia. I'd still make England heavy favourites at home against just about anyone including the next Ashes.
just a reminder that Australia haven't lost in South Africa since their re-admission.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 09:17   #811
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Sounds like crane is going to play. Ready for some cognitive dissonance in action?

He either does well:
His fans - see he should have played all along
His doubters - dead rubber and Aussies not at the races so who cares

Does badly
His fans - but unfair to throw him into an already lost series and expect him to stand out
His doubters - I was right - he is not good enough.

What will happen? Will anyone care?
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Old 22nd December 2017, 09:19   #812
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On the Ashes review Bob Willis thinks Broad has got his wrist position wrong.
He puts it down to last years tour of India and Bangladesh where he had to try a lot of variations such as cutters on the dustbowls there. Doesn't seem to have returned to normal.
While he has a point about his wrist position it's been like that since well before last winter, commentators were talking about it the summer before although he was taking plenty of wickets then so it wasn't a major "issue".
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Old 22nd December 2017, 10:06   #813
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just a reminder that Australia haven't lost in South Africa since their re-admission.
Although conversely, don't they have a stupidly good record in Australia?
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Old 22nd December 2017, 10:15   #814
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While he has a point about his wrist position it's been like that since well before last winter, commentators were talking about it the summer before although he was taking plenty of wickets then so it wasn't a major "issue".
Not really, his record has fallen away since the SA away series in 2016and he's never bowled with the same zip since then. He was somewhat down on pace v Sri Lanka and Pakistan in 2016. There was some hype that after working with Steffan Jones, he got some of his nip back for the Big Bash in which he played in last year, but I wasn't really that impressed with his bowling v South Africa (earlier this year) or Windies, apart from the occasional spell. However it appears that he's probably fallen a notch below what he's done in that intervening period and this might be somewhat near the end of the road, particularly if the knee issue he seems to have is an ongoing concern.

His record against the Aussies up until this tour has been possibly the outstanding feature of his career, however it has taken a battering here.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 10:23   #815
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
Sounds like crane is going to play. Ready for some cognitive dissonance in action?

He either does well:
His fans - see he should have played all along
His doubters - dead rubber and Aussies not at the races so who cares

Does badly
His fans - but unfair to throw him into an already lost series and expect him to stand out
His doubters - I was right - he is not good enough.

What will happen? Will anyone care?

Kneejerkers gonna knee jerk....
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Old 22nd December 2017, 12:19   #816
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Although conversely, don't they have a stupidly good record in Australia?
Won the last 3 here. Harris bowling us to victory on one leg 3 years ago was one of the modern great tests series. It's the best rivalry in Cricket at the moment, no boring tests. Well, aside from that one where Faf and ABD blocked for two days. Ouch.

Last edited by MRNC4.0 : 22nd December 2017 at 12:35.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 12:36   #817
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Won the last 3 here. Harris bowling us to victory on one leg 3 years ago was one of the modern great tests series. It's the best rivalry in Cricket at the moment, no boring tests. Well, aside from that one where Faf and ABD blocked for two days. Ouch.
Possibly because the pitches are fairly similar?

Although never quite worked out why England do ok in SA but not in Aus.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 12:48   #818
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Possibly because the pitches are fairly similar?

Although never quite worked out why England do ok in SA but not in Aus.
The bounce. SA seams a lot more than Australian wickets, but our batsman and bowlers enjoy the pace and bounce on offer. English bowlers get a bit more help in SA with lateral movement.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 12:56   #819
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Sounds like crane is going to play. Ready for some cognitive dissonance in action?

He either does well:
His fans - see he should have played all along
His doubters - dead rubber and Aussies not at the races so who cares

Does badly
His fans - but unfair to throw him into an already lost series and expect him to stand out
His doubters - I was right - he is not good enough.

What will happen? Will anyone care?
In the absence of Stokes I can't see how they can get him into the side.

Cook Stoneman Vince Root Malan Bairstow Woakes Curran Broad Crane Anderson is a looooooong old tail.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 13:01   #820
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In the absence of Stokes I can't see how they can get him into the side.

Cook Stoneman Vince Root Malan Bairstow Woakes Curran Broad Crane Anderson is a looooooong old tail.
I think the suggestion was that he'd replace Overton if he played.
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