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Old 7th June 2016, 07:07   #241
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Odd for an Australian, or indeed anyone, to quibble about heritage. Both batsmen are English. I'm sure you're right about ground size, although even on tiny grounds scores that huge are very rare.

Did you spot one of the linked articles? Thought it would be right up your street.
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Old 7th June 2016, 12:39   #242
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I'm surprised anyone related to Kepler Wessels can score at more than 3 an over.
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Old 8th June 2016, 01:00   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slop View Post
I'm surprised anyone related to Kepler Wessels can score at more than 3 an over.
Touche !
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Old 8th June 2016, 01:57   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatslogger View Post
Odd for an Australian, or indeed anyone, to quibble about heritage. Both batsmen are English. I'm sure you're right about ground size, although even on tiny grounds scores that huge are very rare.

Did you spot one of the linked articles? Thought it would be right up your street.
For once you are right fatty, that article was right up my street as I laughed my head off reading it.
Some lowly Pommy blogger called Douglas-E blowing England's horn, apparently for the benefit of Englishmen as nobody else would be interested in it.
This was also up my street, an article in espncricinfo regarding the heritage of England's players over the years -

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashe...ry/903965.html

"Ballance has been replaced for the Edgbaston Test by Jonny Bairstow, leaving Ben Stokes as the only player born overseas in an England XI often criticised over the years for the far-flung birthplaces of its charges."

and this one -

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...en-born-abroad

..................."A total of 61 England Test cricketers have been born abroad from 15 different countries"............. !!!!!

.............."AUSTRALIA: Billy Murdoch, John Ferris, Sammy Woods, Albert Trott, "Gubby" Allen, Adam Hollioake, Ben Hollioake, Jason Gallian, Tim Ambrose.".................

Now without even looking I am sure every Test playing country has had players born overseas in their sides but that is understandable if they are colonies or countries with small populations. But what is England's excuse !
A long established country with a population three times that of Australia.

For every article you post fatty that is "right up my street" I can post ten more.
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Old 8th June 2016, 11:14   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickmac View Post
For once you are right fatty, that article was right up my street as I laughed my head off reading it.
Some lowly Pommy blogger called Douglas-E blowing England's horn, apparently for the benefit of Englishmen as nobody else would be interested in it.
This was also up my street, an article in espncricinfo regarding the heritage of England's players over the years -

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashe...ry/903965.html

"Ballance has been replaced for the Edgbaston Test by Jonny Bairstow, leaving Ben Stokes as the only player born overseas in an England XI often criticised over the years for the far-flung birthplaces of its charges."

and this one -

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...en-born-abroad

..................."A total of 61 England Test cricketers have been born abroad from 15 different countries"............. !!!!!

.............."AUSTRALIA: Billy Murdoch, John Ferris, Sammy Woods, Albert Trott, "Gubby" Allen, Adam Hollioake, Ben Hollioake, Jason Gallian, Tim Ambrose.".................

Now without even looking I am sure every Test playing country has had players born overseas in their sides but that is understandable if they are colonies or countries with small populations. But what is England's excuse !
A long established country with a population three times that of Australia.

For every article you post fatty that is "right up my street" I can post ten more.
670 players have played test cricket for England.

11.9% of the UK population was born overseas.

11.9% of 670 is 79.73

So we should have have had 79.73 players born overseas
(Dermot Reeve* would be presumably the 0.73 of a test player)

*born Hong Kong
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Old 8th June 2016, 11:21   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickmac View Post
Now without even looking I am sure every Test playing country has had players born overseas in their sides but that is understandable if they are colonies or countries with small populations. But what is England's excuse !
A long established country with a population three times that of Australia
Lots of people form our former colonies still like to come and live here. Some of them happen to be good at sport and of those there will always be some who have parents born here and have British passports. it would be rude not to welcome them to play for us, that's just the way we are, welcoming!
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Old 8th June 2016, 11:28   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickmac View Post
For once you are right fatty, that article was right up my street as I laughed my head off reading it.
Some lowly Pommy blogger called Douglas-E blowing England's horn, apparently for the benefit of Englishmen as nobody else would be interested in it.
This was also up my street, an article in espncricinfo regarding the heritage of England's players over the years -

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashe...ry/903965.html

"Ballance has been replaced for the Edgbaston Test by Jonny Bairstow, leaving Ben Stokes as the only player born overseas in an England XI often criticised over the years for the far-flung birthplaces of its charges."

and this one -

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...en-born-abroad

..................."A total of 61 England Test cricketers have been born abroad from 15 different countries"............. !!!!!

.............."AUSTRALIA: Billy Murdoch, John Ferris, Sammy Woods, Albert Trott, "Gubby" Allen, Adam Hollioake, Ben Hollioake, Jason Gallian, Tim Ambrose.".................

Now without even looking I am sure every Test playing country has had players born overseas in their sides but that is understandable if they are colonies or countries with small populations. But what is England's excuse !
A long established country with a population three times that of Australia.

For every article you post fatty that is "right up my street" I can post ten more.
I knew you'd like it. I didn't think it was particularly sharp in its analysis mind: Anderson was clearly down played (just before he got to the top of the rankings) inexpertly. He and Broad are on a par as among the best fast bowlers playing test cricket (I don't think either is as good as Steyn but both have been a lot fitter recently, which obviously matters a lot) and having the pair of them gives England at worst a good shot every test, no matter that much of the batting and back up bowling are shaky.

I don't personally have any particular preference for English players to have been born in England. As gbg points out, England (and Wales) is multicultural and birthplace doesn't and shouldn't determine nationality. If there were no or very few home grown players coming through that would sound some alarm bells around our development systems but that would be the thing I'd be worried about, not some entirely artificial notion of ethnic purity.
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Old 15th June 2016, 09:07   #248
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670 players have played test cricket for England.

11.9% of the UK population was born overseas.

11.9% of 670 is 79.73

So we should have have had 79.73 players born overseas
(Dermot Reeve* would be presumably the 0.73 of a test player)

*born Hong Kong
Fair call !

What about Tufnell and Tavare ?
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Old 15th June 2016, 10:30   #249
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Remember Colin Cowdrey was born in India, Ted Dexter in Italy and Plum Warner in Trinidad. Nobody doubted their England credentials. Douglas Jardine was born in India too.
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Old 15th June 2016, 19:30   #250
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Do we have any great batsmen these days?

1950s - 8 averaged over 40
- Hutton 56.67 Walcott 56.58 Weeks 58.61 Harvey 50.25
1960s - 15
- Sobers 60.03 Barrington 59.78 Graveney 52.09 Simpson 51.21 Dexter 50.38
1970s - 20
- Richards 58.21 Boycott 55.97 Gavaskar 55.91 Chappell 52.98 Redpath 50.19
1980s - 22
- Chappell 55.34 Border 55.11 Miandad 54.77 Lloyd 52.38 Jones 51.52
1990s - 32
-Tendulkar 58.00 Waugh 53.10 Lara 51.60 Gooch 51.55
2000s - 43
-Kallis 58.70 Yousuf 58.53 Ponting 58.38 Inzi 55.57 Jaywardene 55.31 Sangakkara 55.10 Dravid 54.85 Lara 54.06 Thorpe 53.30 SWaugh 53.30 Tendulkar 53.20 Haydon 52.93 Sehwag 52.50 Chanderpaul 52.31 Hussey 51.97 Samaraweera 51.14 Khan 50.09
2010s - 31
- Sangakkara 61.40 Amla 61.16 Chanderpaul 60.33 Khan 60.25 SSmith 60.18 Kallis 58.54 de Villiers 58.24 Misbah 55.00 Root 52.92 Hussey 50.92 Mathews 50.14 Warner 50.06 Tendulkar 50.01

Five of the above have retired and I don't see many replacing them. In the last 3 years Smith 65.32, Williamson 59.80, Root 52.30, Warner 51.80. Only 2 players McCullum and Cook in the 40s who have played 30+ Tests
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Old 15th June 2016, 20:45   #251
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I should think Kohli and Rahane will improve their averages closer to 50, plus Monimul Haque averages 56 albeit from fewer matches.
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Old 15th June 2016, 21:25   #252
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Goes to show just how good Tendulkar really was.

Hard to imagine many English batsmen will average about 50 other than Root but Bairstow will probably be mid to high 40s. De Kock too I reckon. Aussies have a few young batsmen who will have over inflated averages from playing on flat decks Down Under.
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Old 16th June 2016, 11:09   #253
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Goes to show just how good Tendulkar really was.

Hard to imagine many English batsmen will average about 50 other than Root but Bairstow will probably be mid to high 40s. De Kock too I reckon. Aussies have a few young batsmen who will have over inflated averages from playing on flat decks Down Under.
Would they be the same flat decks that just a few years ago England were flogged 5-0 in an Ashes series ? Those flat decks ?
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Old 29th June 2016, 02:09   #254
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Batsmen who average over 40.00
(England qualified)

97.80 - Livingstone
51.24 - Root
49.90 - Ballance
48.76 - Bairstow
48.22 - Cook
45.00 - Bell
44.44 - Hildreth
44.21 - Browne
42.30 - Carberry
42.15 - Joe Clarke
42.08 - Duckett
41.66 - Compton
41.12 - Bopara
40.58 - Wright
40.47 - S Davies
40.40 - Vince
40.29 - Dickson

Last edited by 1000yardstare : 29th June 2016 at 09:48.
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Old 29th June 2016, 07:02   #255
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Livingstone has been somewhat aided by red inkers...
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Old 29th June 2016, 09:48   #256
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Livingstone has been somewhat aided by red inkers...
Considering that he has only played 7 games and has 2 hundreds and 3 fifties he is not doing too badly.

I can't believe how few batsmen average over 40.00 and only one player averages over 50.00. There must be about 400 county cricketers.
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Old 29th June 2016, 09:57   #257
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Scoring runs isn't easy in England. I don't think this era is much different to any time post-war.
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Old 9th July 2016, 18:49   #258
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Young batsmen averaging 40+ just starting out, apart from Duckett but is only 21.

f/c matches played and ages in brackets

(40) Duckett (21) 42.08 8 100s - opening batsman
(20) Clarke (20) 44.75 5 100s - bats at 4
(18) Lawrence (18) 40.08 2 100s - bats at 6
(13) Hameed (19) 43.20 2 100s - opening batsman
(9) Livingstone (22) 72.75 2 100s - bats at 7 but has been promoted to 6
(3) Eskinazi (22) 72.25 2 100s - bats at 3

The first three are in the 2nd division and bottom 3 in the 1st Division.
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Old 27th July 2016, 12:37   #259
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Both Kohli and Root have made double hundreds in the last week
(updated)


42 Tests 3882 runs at 59.72 HS215 14 100s 16 50s - Smith (27)
44 Tests 3875 runs at 56.15 HS254 10 100s 21 50s - Root (25)
48 Tests 4037 runs at 49.23 HS242* 13 100s 19 50s - Williamson (25)
42 Tests 3194 runs at 46.28 HS200 12 100s 12 50s - Kohli (27)

254 b/f 406 - 614 mins - Root
242* b/f 438 - 623 mins - Williamson
215 b/f 346 - 503 mins - Smith
200 b/f 283 - 375 mins - Kohli

Root the only one to have 2 double hundreds so far.

12 - Bradman
11 - Sangakkara
9 - Lara
7 - Hammond, Jayawardene
6 - Atapattu, Sehwag, Miandad, Ponting, Tendukar
5 - Y Khan, G Smith, Dravid
4 - Abbas, Hutton, Chappell, Amla, Yousuf, McCullum, Greenidge, Clarke, Gavaskar
3 - Simpson, Kirtsten, Pietersen, Gayle, Langer, Richards, Jayasuriya, Fleming, Cook
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Old 28th July 2016, 10:58   #260
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Williamson to captain his first Test today. That makes it Smith, Kohli and Williamson are captains and Root, vice captain. Four impressive players.

As captain

Misbah - 56.25
Mathews - 55.46
de Villiers - 9.00 only 2 Tests, player only 50.45
Mushfiqur 38.28
Holder - 19.81/67.20
Cremer - only 1 Test
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