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Old 22nd November 2016, 18:43   #301
oldandfat
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Does anyone on this board really believe that Smith is the best batsman in the world?
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Old 22nd November 2016, 19:17   #302
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Does anyone on this board really believe that Smith is the best batsman in the world?
I would argue that he is in tests. In terms of pure strokeplay and technique then obviously he's not but he has some serious grit, a much better conversion rate than Root with evidently a better attitude, and far more consistency than Kohli.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 19:29   #303
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Until Root stops giving his wicket away between 30 & 80 he won't be considered the best, irrespective of any computerised ranking system.

It's a shame England are so badly depleted in terms of batting reserves, because I think a spell in county cricket to shake him up wouldn't harm at all.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 19:57   #304
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Until Root stops giving his wicket away between 30 & 80 he won't be considered the best, irrespective of any computerised ranking system.

It's a shame England are so badly depleted in terms of batting reserves, because I think a spell in county cricket to shake him up wouldn't harm at all.
I think Smith is slightly better than Root in tests and I don't think a bit of a rest from international cricket (ideally missing some more limited overs games) would necessarily do Root any harm but dropping him because he's not scoring enough tons would be pretty silly, as he's still comfortably one of the best batsman in world cricket. He did get 120 only one test ago.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 20:00   #305
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I think Smith is slightly better than Root in tests and I don't think a bit of a rest from international cricket (ideally missing some more limited overs games) would necessarily do Root any harm but dropping him because he's not scoring enough tons would be pretty silly, as he's still comfortably one of the best batsman in world cricket.
The problem is the lack of suitable replacements for him.

A dressing down wouldn't hurt though.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 20:09   #306
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The problem is the lack of suitable replacements for him.

A dressing down wouldn't hurt though.
Suitable replacements for one of the best batsmen in world cricket when we can't find a decent fourth specialist batsman for series after series? Oddly enough, no, we don't, although we still wouldn't even if we had vastly better batting reserves than we do.

Don't buy the dressing down theory at all either.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 20:22   #307
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Does anyone on this board really believe that Smith is the best batsman in the world?
There is surely no debate on this? The headline numbers are astonishingly good (4000 runs at 57, 15 centuries in 46 games), but dig deeper and there is hardly a hole in his record:
  • Averages 40+ against everyone except Pakistan (average 34, 2 out of 4 Tests played back in 2010 when he was being picked as a leg-spinner)
  • Averages over 40 (and has at least a 90) in every country he has played in
  • Away record almost as strong as home record
  • An average of 81 (including 10 centuries) in wins.
As he showed in the last game he is no flat track bully like many of his teammates and stands up under tough situations.

Aesthetically he looks the worst of the top 4 ranked players but who cares about that.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 05:34   #308
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Smith has a technique that looks like it might get exposed any moment, and he did struggle in England, but bowling attacks haven't yet managed to consistently get him out for low scores.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 08:04   #309
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Smith struggled in England except when he made huge scores, which he has in every London test he's played bar his first against Pakistan. He has made the odd score outside the capital too but nothing above the 80s. If you could filter for England provincial as a different country his record would be very poor but overall it's 43.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 09:26   #310
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Smith struggled in England except when he made huge scores, which he has in every London test he's played bar his first against Pakistan. He has made the odd score outside the capital too but nothing above the 80s. If you could filter for England provincial as a different country his record would be very poor but overall it's 43.
I consider provincial England a foreign country.............

It should be pointed out that England has W0 D1 L4 of the last 5 games played in London with Pak and Oz winning two matches each at Lord's and the Oval with Sri Lanka gaining a draw in the rain affected match earlier this year. It should be said that both Lord's and the Oval are usually pretty flat although I remember Smith swishing a lot early in his innings at the Oval before getting himself in.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 10:25   #311
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Smith struggled in England except when he made huge scores, which he has in every London test he's played bar his first against Pakistan. He has made the odd score outside the capital too but nothing above the 80s. If you could filter for England provincial as a different country his record would be very poor but overall it's 43.
You seem to be saying that when Smith is bad, he's bad, but when he's good he's very, very good. Damning with faint praise really. Not sure anyone has broken down Root, Kohli or Williamson's records by region , but we do seem to want to scrutinise Smith to this level. England fans probably struggle to respect Smith because of his ugly technique and that he was something of a joke among us when called up in that 2010/11 Ashes. Couldn't bat, couldn't bowl but Warney liked him as he was a good laugh in the dressing room, if I recall.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 10:38   #312
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You seem to be saying that when Smith is bad, he's bad, but when he's good he's very, very good. Damning with faint praise really. Not sure anyone has broken down Root, Kohli or Williamson's records by region , but we do seem to want to scrutinise Smith to this level.
Root has a good record at most English Test venues, except for his home ground, oddly enough.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 10:43   #313
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You seem to be saying that when Smith is bad, he's bad, but when he's good he's very, very good. Damning with faint praise really. Not sure anyone has broken down Root, Kohli or Williamson's records by region , but we do seem to want to scrutinise Smith to this level. England fans probably struggle to respect Smith because of his ugly technique and that he was something of a joke among us when called up in that 2010/11 Ashes. Couldn't bat, couldn't bowl but Warney liked him as he was a good laugh in the dressing room, if I recall.
Yes I can quite understand why one would not want to rate Smith. I find it quite hard to do so because he was a tired punchline for so long and just looks so ridiculous batting - and of course he's an Aussie - but he has made such a compelling case over the last two years with runs absolutely everywhere (except in certain regions of Britain) and quite often in adversity, too: when Oz were skittled by SA in their last game, he was left stranded on 48* but had nobody good enough to bat with him.

In terms of all-round, all-format players then he's probably behind the other 3, I'd argue - Kohli being possibly the best white ball player of all time certainly helps him out in that regard when his test record is good but not exceptional. As a pure test batsman, though, I personally think there's clear daylight at the mo between Smith and the next three. Give De Kock another year or two and he might be up there, too.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 12:37   #314
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I consider provincial England a foreign country.............
But isn't this the cricketing equivalent of ..."but can he do it on a freezing wet night at Stoke?" ... or is that still "... in a freezing North Easterly at the Riverside at the back end of April"?
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Old 23rd November 2016, 13:17   #315
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But isn't this the cricketing equivalent of ..."but can he do it on a freezing wet night at Stoke?" ... or is that still "... in a freezing North Easterly at the Riverside at the back end of April"?
A shame that Aidan hasn't got here first given that sadly, test cricket will be denied to that part of the world for the forthcoming years. Nice enough ground, poor transport links etc being a rather large issue for that club.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 13:38   #316
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Yes I can quite understand why one would not want to rate Smith. I find it quite hard to do so because he was a tired punchline for so long and just looks so ridiculous batting - and of course he's an Aussie - but he has made such a compelling case over the last two years with runs absolutely everywhere (except in certain regions of Britain) and quite often in adversity, too: when Oz were skittled by SA in their last game, he was left stranded on 48* but had nobody good enough to bat with him.

In terms of all-round, all-format players then he's probably behind the other 3, I'd argue - Kohli being possibly the best white ball player of all time certainly helps him out in that regard when his test record is good but not exceptional. As a pure test batsman, though, I personally think there's clear daylight at the mo between Smith and the next three. Give De Kock another year or two and he might be up there, too.
There is still a question mark against Smith and Kohli playing the swinging or seaming ball which there isn't against Root and Williamson, who also seem to be able to score runs in Asia. If I had to back my house on a batsman to score runs anywhere out of those four it would probably be Williamson.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 14:56   #317
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I consider provincial England a foreign country.............


I wonder what a London XI would look like?

1. Bell-Drummond
2. Browne
3. Burns
4. Pietersen
5. Bopara
6. Roy
7. Foakes/Simpson
8. Curran
9. Curran
10. Rayner
11. Finn

Reserves Harinath, Robson, Malan, Davies, Roland-Jones, Meaker, Ansari, Batty

Who have I missed? Gubbins is too home counties.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 15:04   #318
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I wonder what a London XI would look like?

1. Bell-Drummond
2. Browne
3. Burns
4. Pietersen
5. Bopara
6. Roy
7. Foakes/Simpson
8. Curran
9. Curran
10. Rayner
11. Finn

Reserves Harinath, Robson, Malan, Davies, Roland-Jones, Meaker, Ansari, Batty

Who have I missed? Gubbins is too home counties.
Billy Godleman is a proper Londoner
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Old 23rd November 2016, 15:09   #319
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There is still a question mark against Smith and Kohli playing the swinging or seaming ball which there isn't against Root and Williamson, who also seem to be able to score runs in Asia. If I had to back my house on a batsman to score runs anywhere out of those four it would probably be Williamson.
I'm not sure how much that is the case for Smith, really. Got some good runs against NZ when I think it was swinging a fair bit and of course got his first double ton in England, albeit in London when it wasn't exactly hooping around. Plus Root's yet to score runs in Australia. Probably agree with you that Williamson is the most versatile run-scorer, but he also averages 8 below Smith. That's greater than the difference between Pietersen and Bell, or the same as Stokes and Hales.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 16:08   #320
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post


I wonder what a London XI would look like?

1. Bell-Drummond
2. Browne
3. Burns
4. Pietersen
5. Bopara
6. Roy
7. Foakes/Simpson
8. Curran
9. Curran
10. Rayner
11. Finn

Reserves Harinath, Robson, Malan, Davies, Roland-Jones, Meaker, Ansari, Batty

Who have I missed? Gubbins is too home counties.
For a London team, there's a disappointing lack of candidates with surnames beginning with 'H'. There was a time when Surrey alone could field 'Obbs, 'Ayward, 'Ayes, 'Itch and H'Abel.
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