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Old 16th October 2013, 17:00   #21
P@ulos
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Always enjoyed watching Harmy bowl, even if he was the definition of consistently inconsistent. Nice guy and wish him the best in whatever he does with his life next. Like others have said he's surprisingly good in the comms.

Thinking about it, last time I watched him bowl live for England was in 06 against Pakistan at Old Trafford, where he scared Pakistan to death. Probably the best he'd bowled since his famous spell in the WI.
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Old 16th October 2013, 17:39   #22
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No wind up Harmison for about 18 months was about the best bowler on the planet and as hard to defend against as Ambrose, just as Vaughan was the world's best batsman for a similar duration. It's just a pity neither get remembered for their sheer invincibility when they were at the top. Whereas the likes of Hoggard who was complete and utter mediocrity for the first half of his career and never achieved the heights of Harmison at his best, yet is revered for being workmanlike and finishing his career on a high.
It's rare for cabinboy to disparage a Yorkie, so take that as praise indeed.
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Old 17th October 2013, 22:27   #23
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Harmy's performance in the first Ashes test of 2005 was the spark which ignited English hopes that we might just have a chance of doing more than just compete. For that I will always remember Steve H with fondness.
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Old 18th October 2013, 00:23   #24
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Harmy's performance in the first Ashes test of 2005 was the spark which ignited English hopes that we might just have a chance of doing more than just compete. For that I will always remember Steve H with fondness.
Sorry I have never bought this. The spark was Glenn treading on a ball (and not being fit for the rest of the series) coupled with ponting's arrogance to bowl first. We got hammered at lord's.
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Old 18th October 2013, 02:50   #25
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Harmy's performance in the first Ashes test of 2005 was the spark which ignited English hopes that we might just have a chance of doing more than just compete. For that I will always remember Steve H with fondness.
I agree, even though we ended up losing the 1st test, how Harmy and the rest bowled in that 1st inning did spark a genuine hope that we could we win this thing, because we had an attack very much capable of it.
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Old 18th October 2013, 07:34   #26
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But what did our day one batting show? That McGrath would still skittle us. Why after the first test did all the media say "same story different year" type stuff? It was a fine spell but let's not kid ourselves we did not win due to McGrath being injured!

Remember in his career he lost 4 of the 30 Tess he played. That series they lost none he played in and both of the ones he did not.

Career average of 15 at Trent bridge remember....
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Old 18th October 2013, 10:30   #27
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McGrath's injury was clearly a pivotal moment in the series, more so than Harmison's spell at Lords. What that first innings did suggest though was that England had a bowling attack that could live with and even dominate the Aussie batsmen who, in years gone by, had put our bowlers to the sword time and time again. Even in the 2nd innings we might well have restricted them to a smaller target had our fielding been smarter (although we'd still have lost the test).
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Old 18th October 2013, 11:02   #28
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McGrath's injury was clearly a pivotal moment in the series, more so than Harmison's spell at Lords. What that first innings did suggest though was that England had a bowling attack that could live with and even dominate the Aussie batsmen who, in years gone by, had put our bowlers to the sword time and time again. Even in the 2nd innings we might well have restricted them to a smaller target had our fielding been smarter (although we'd still have lost the test).
True but in 1997 we hammered them in the first test. Far too much is made of such things IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, at his best (six months or so) harmy was incredible but he should have been a great but sadly wasn't.
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Old 18th October 2013, 11:13   #29
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True but in 1997 we hammered them in the first test. Far too much is made of such things IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, at his best (six months or so) harmy was incredible but he should have been a great but sadly wasn't.
Well, that's been my argument above. 1997 was probably the only other time we looked like living with the Aussies until McGrath ran through us at Lords. It was certainly the weakest Australian side, particularly batting wise, that faced us in the Many Years of Hurt. In theory the 2005 side appeared strongest when they first arrived but we soon saw weaknesses appear as without Waugh their batting turned out to be fragile, while Gillespie and Kaspo started to show their age. It was Harmison that exposed the former on the first day, which I think spurred our bowlers on for the rest of the series. KP in the ODIs then that first day at Edgbaston exposed the soft bowling underbelly.
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Old 18th October 2013, 12:02   #30
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Cabinboy - As stated I really liked Harmmy - but "when at his best and was even more dangerous than Ambrose." is plainly wrong, I am not sure I have ever seen a bowler harder to play than Ambrose with his dander up.
I think the 40odd all out by England in the Carribean in the 94 series over there and the 7-1 spell in Perth should really put that to bed when you think of CEL Ambrose.
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Old 18th October 2013, 12:32   #31
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I think the 40odd all out by England in the Carribean in the 94 series over there and the 7-1 spell in Perth should really put that to bed when you think of CEL Ambrose.
They should have just taken a step down the pitch and smacked it over mid off.

Curtly is the best I have seen and I loved his reaction at wickets http://youtu.be/F7UOy5thUig
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Old 18th October 2013, 13:33   #32
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Amby's 7 for 1 was just a mind blowing spell. For him to combine with Bishop bowling at the speed of wind made Australian batsmen quiver for cover.
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Old 19th October 2013, 13:51   #33
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When Steve Harmison was rocketing up the bowling rankings as he did, English cricket's traditional strength and depth in pace and seam bowling came to the fore once more.

Of course, Hoggard and Flintoff were essential ingredients in the mix and Jones the final variable added into the equation.
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Old 21st October 2013, 18:08   #34
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But what did our day one batting show? That McGrath would still skittle us. Why after the first test did all the media say "same story different year" type stuff? It was a fine spell but let's not kid ourselves we did not win due to McGrath being injured!

Remember in his career he lost 4 of the 30 Tess he played. That series they lost none he played in and both of the ones he did not.

Career average of 15 at Trent bridge remember....
I'm not sure what you're arguing against, all I said is that bowling performance sparked a belief in me that we could go head to head.

Well for an all time great team, you'd think they'd have had better depth to their bowling, if losing McGrath is all it took.
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Old 21st October 2013, 19:01   #35
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Harmy's performance in the first Ashes test of 2005 was the spark which ignited English hopes that we might just have a chance of doing more than just compete. For that I will always remember Steve H with fondness.
Yep. I always felt that. Even though we got turned over, that first morning at Lord's, that "'woz what won it". We saw England bowlers with genuine pace. We saw Aussie bats hopping about like frogs. Harmi was too sensitive to be a true great. If you compare him to Ambrose and Walsh, you have to look at the like of Holding, Garner (He reminded me of Big Bird), Marshall, Thompson, Lillee. Many more. Unfairly criticized I thought, through much of his career.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 00:20   #36
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It always astonishes me when people talk about SiJo in the same breath as Harmison. Jones 59 wickets, Flintoff and Harmison 226 apiece. Hoggard 248.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 07:15   #37
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It always astonishes me when people talk about SiJo in the same breath as Harmison. Jones 59 wickets, Flintoff and Harmison 226 apiece. Hoggard 248.
But Jones needed 11 fewer balls than Harmy to take each wicket.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 12:47   #38
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The thing about Jones though is that his international career was cut short after 18 tests. He never went through the dips in form and being dropped that affect most other bowlers, and as such his reputation stands untarnished. His stats may be better than Harmision's, but imagine Harmy's reputation if he had been forced to retire at the end of 2004; or immediately after the Ashes 2005, with his stats dented slightly but with a famous Ashes victory on his CV.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 12:55   #39
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The thing about Jones though is that his international career was cut short after 18 tests. He never went through the dips in form and being dropped that affect most other bowlers, and as such his reputation stands untarnished. His stats may be better than Harmision's, but imagine Harmy's reputation if he had been forced to retire at the end of 2004; or immediately after the Ashes 2005, with his stats dented slightly but with a famous Ashes victory on his CV.
True, the issue is though that Harmison's form after 2006 Pakistan series was more than just a regular peak and trough as Ali earlier explained.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 16:14   #40
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We have no idea whether Jones would have suffered major troughs in form like Harmison or whether he'd have sustained the trajectory of improvement in his bowling over time. All we have is his actual record, which was very impressive, including being our bowler of the series against the incredibly strong Aussie batting line up of 2005.
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