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Old 28th March 2014, 08:25   #41
Psyduck
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Somebody needs to put Bresnan out of his misery. His performance levels have reached the point where he is becoming an embarrassment.
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Old 28th March 2014, 09:51   #42
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Somebody needs to put Bresnan out of his misery. His performance levels have reached the point where he is becoming an embarrassment.
It seems in recent times he's had an almost Geraint Jones limpet like ability to remain in the team despite his almost universal crapulence. I guess the "good team man" phrase was applied to him as well.
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Old 28th March 2014, 10:46   #43
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Somebody needs to put Bresnan out of his misery. His performance levels have reached the point where he is becoming an embarrassment.
When Jade Dernbach is seen as the lesser of two evils...
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Old 30th March 2014, 15:08   #44
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It seems in recent times he's had an almost Geraint Jones limpet like ability to remain in the team despite his almost universal crapulence. I guess the "good team man" phrase was applied to him as well.
Following a lot of criticism of Jones's keeping, an interviewer put it to Flintoff that there was a problem. "Not in our dressing room" was the reply. They just liked having hiim in the team, however he performed.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 12:01   #45
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Following a lot of criticism of Jones's keeping, an interviewer put it to Flintoff that there was a problem. "Not in our dressing room" was the reply. They just liked having hiim in the team, however he performed.
http://www.cricketcountry.com/articl...rounder-104475

This sums of Bresnan's career in a nutshell in as few a words as possible. The style of the poster who wrote this is eerily familiar, though I couldn't tell for sure if it is him in his true guise.
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Old 30th April 2015, 14:36   #46
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Quite a lot of chat about Bresnan on the selection thread so I though I'd bring his own thread to the front to discuss it on here.
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Old 30th April 2015, 14:40   #47
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Do you actually bother reading posts before replying to them? I said averaging under 40 means he wasn't totally out of his depth at international level, although one could argue that he was in T20, where are average nearer 40 than 30 is awful. His test bowling record, as I've pointed out several times, isn't actually bad, it's just not great either and he looked to be suffering from having to crank his pace up, had injuries and wasn't as effective after them.

Stokes and Woakes have played a small number of tests each, Woakes especially. Neither has convinced with the ball but both have bowled some pretty good spells and Stokes has had some really good returns with the bat too. They're still finding their feet. It's entirely possible that neither will properly make it as a test player but both offer better utility to England now (well, Woakes will once he's fit again anyway) than Bresnan and also have a lot more potential to develop.
Averaging what he does shows he isn't out of the depth at all, never mind totally out of depth. You say that in the future Woakes and Stokes will develop and that may well be in the case, but at present Bresnan is equal to them, if not better.
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Old 30th April 2015, 14:53   #48
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Quite a lot of chat about Bresnan on the selection thread so I though I'd bring his own thread to the front to discuss it on here.
Brave man!
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Old 30th April 2015, 14:55   #49
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Averaging what he does shows he isn't out of the depth at all, never mind totally out of depth. You say that in the future Woakes and Stokes will develop and that may well be in the case, but at present Bresnan is equal to them, if not better.
Okay but if you're not going to bother reading posts properly people will get a bit bored of replying. Averaging over 35 in T20 is very poor, as was his economy of 8. He was not international standard there. In ODIs he was dubious at best with the ball and again, average of 35, economy of 5.45 is bad. He had some utility as a lower order hitter but nowhere near good enough to make up for his bowling.

His test record isn't bad and had he not suffered injuries and faded away so that his later career was a lot worse than his earlier, he would have remained in contention. I would contend that his injuries, poor returns in his last few test series and his worse first class records than both Stokes and Woakes (and he's quite a lot worse than both of them with both bat and ball, interestingly) make him a long way off being equal to either as a selection. If he tears county cricket apart this season he may just enter the equation for another go but I don't see it happening for him and neither does almost anyone else other than you. Even D/L, whose love for Bresnan has led him to invent all sorts of concepts around pivotal number 8s and batting for the situations (both of which might have some merit in themselves as things to look at but didn't really apply to Bresnan), isn't advocating a test recall.
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Old 30th April 2015, 15:03   #50
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Okay but if you're not going to bother reading posts properly people will get a bit bored of replying. Averaging over 35 in T20 is very poor, as was his economy of 8. He was not international standard there. In ODIs he was dubious at best with the ball and again, average of 35, economy of 5.45 is bad. He had some utility as a lower order hitter but nowhere near good enough to make up for his bowling.

His test record isn't bad and had he not suffered injuries and faded away so that his later career was a lot worse than his earlier, he would have remained in contention. I would contend that his injuries, poor returns in his last few test series and his worse first class records than both Stokes and Woakes (and he's quite a lot worse than both of them with both bat and ball, interestingly) make him a long way off being equal to either as a selection. If he tears county cricket apart this season he may just enter the equation for another go but I don't see it happening for him and neither does almost anyone else other than you. Even D/L, whose love for Bresnan has led him to invent all sorts of concepts around pivotal number 8s and batting for the situations (both of which might have some merit in themselves as things to look at but didn't really apply to Bresnan), isn't advocating a test recall.
AsI said before, England have a lot of games coming up and need a strong group of bowlers. He may not be in line for a Test recall, but he could still do a job in ODIs. You say 5.5 is a poor economy rate, but by modern standards it's not too bad.
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Old 30th April 2015, 15:03   #51
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... Even D/L, whose love for Bresnan has led him to invent all sorts of concepts around pivotal number 8s and batting for the situations (both of which might have some merit in themselves as things to look at but didn't really apply to Bresnan), isn't advocating a test recall.
Your love for fabrication and obfuscation probably led you to make that comment.

#8 is often pivotal, whoever occupies the crease. So far, I've seen nobody better suited than Bresnan to take on the role for England. All he has to be is a little bit better than the others.
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Old 30th April 2015, 15:08   #52
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Do you think he's a better number 8 batsman than Stokes, Woakes or Buttler?
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Old 30th April 2015, 15:11   #53
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Do you think he's a better number 8 batsman than Stokes, Woakes or Buttler?
I would not have Buttler at eight and if Stokes is a batting all rounder then surely he should be batting at six. A number eight should be a good bowler who is useful with the bat, but bowling is a priority. On that basis, Bresnan is the best qualified.
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Old 30th April 2015, 15:12   #54
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Do you think he's a better number 8 batsman than Stokes, Woakes or Buttler?
Not the same level of natural batting ability, but none of these three has yet shown they can bat according to the needs of the situation. They have been out to many daft shots at a time when they should have been supporting a higher order batsman or managing the tail.

Any road up, perhaps these three should all bat higher than 8.
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Old 30th April 2015, 15:19   #55
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And Bresnan, of course, has never played an inappropriate shot.
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Old 30th April 2015, 15:30   #56
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That the best you can do?
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Old 30th April 2015, 15:42   #57
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Okay but if you're not going to bother reading posts properly people will get a bit bored of replying. Averaging over 35 in T20 is very poor, as was his economy of 8. He was not international standard there. In ODIs he was dubious at best with the ball and again, average of 35, economy of 5.45 is bad. He had some utility as a lower order hitter but nowhere near good enough to make up for his bowling.

His test record isn't bad and had he not suffered injuries and faded away so that his later career was a lot worse than his earlier, he would have remained in contention. I would contend that his injuries, poor returns in his last few test series and his worse first class records than both Stokes and Woakes (and he's quite a lot worse than both of them with both bat and ball, interestingly) make him a long way off being equal to either as a selection. If he tears county cricket apart this season he may just enter the equation for another go but I don't see it happening for him and neither does almost anyone else other than you. Even D/L, whose love for Bresnan has led him to invent all sorts of concepts around pivotal number 8s and batting for the situations (both of which might have some merit in themselves as things to look at but didn't really apply to Bresnan), isn't advocating a test recall.
Looking back at this thread it seems I was the first to mention pivotal.

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Old 30th April 2015, 16:13   #58
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I see Broad more as a no.9 than a no.8 in ODIs at the moment. I don't think he has the range of shots, nor the 6 hitting yet needed to fulfill that pivotal role.

If Bresnan's bowling has developed sufficiently, I'd suggest he'd be an easy player to slot into this England line-up.
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Looking back at this thread it seems I was the first to mention pivotal.
Heck, yes.

Good of you to say so.
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Old 30th April 2015, 16:17   #59
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First time I've read some of the early comments on this thread.

'struth, hasn't Broad's batting dropped considerably in most people's estimation?
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Old 30th April 2015, 17:45   #60
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My major concern about Bresnan is that the last time I saw him bowl (for Yorks against Nottingham in CC last September) he was clocking about 70mph. It was a bit depressing. He may have regained pace since but if he tries to operate at 82-85mph he'll just end up injured again.
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