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Old 29th August 2007, 14:37   #181
slop
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The money is potentially Boucher's though.
No, potentially it's not his. In reality, it's not his. He's been fined therefore, given that he isn't appealing, the money is not his. It's like me donating money to charity rather than paying for a speeding ticket, it don't work that way. Were he to donate a further equivalent of the 60%, that might be worth noting.

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How would you like to work for the next fortnight or so knowing you will only be paid 40% of your projected wage?
I wouldn't, which is why I avoid breaking the terms of my employment (or being caught anyway ). Let's not forget the fact that Boucher will make far more than just his match fees for the tournament, and that 40% is still a lot of money for the 2 weeks work.

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As for lying; not sure what you're on about.
Dishonesty then. It's pretty obvious if anyone reads Boucher's actual comments rather than your version. For a start.
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Old 29th August 2007, 14:42   #182
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No, potentially it's not his. In reality, it's not his. He's been fined therefore, given that he isn't appealing, the money is not his. It's like me donating money to charity rather than paying for a speeding ticket, it don't work that way. Were he to donate a further equivalent of the 60%, that might be worth noting.



I wouldn't, which is why I avoid breaking the terms of my employment (or being caught anyway ). Let's not forget the fact that Boucher will make far more than just his match fees for the tournament, and that 40% is still a lot of money for the 2 weeks work.



Dishonesty then. It's pretty obvious if anyone reads Boucher's actual comments rather than your version. For a start.
Still don't agree with the dishonesty term either; think it gets down to interpretation or subjectivity in terms of analysis. If SA gets knocked out early, Boucher may earn very little.
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Old 29th August 2007, 14:54   #183
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Still don't agree with the dishonesty term either; think it gets down to interpretation or subjectivity in terms of analysis. If SA gets knocked out early, Boucher may earn very little.
Well, we've established you're not stupid so I can't think of any other reason for you ignoring a significant part of Boucher's statement (Manthorp too, I'm surprised you didn't quote him though he will take any chance to jump at the CSA, so credibility is minimal).

If Boucher earns little (which he won't) then he only has himself to blame, the first thing my non-SA friends said to me when the comments came out was "what an idiot". He has previous when it comes to being too big for his boots and he was just asking for trouble by engaging his mouth before his brain yet again. There are plenty of journalists who are paid to comment on the CSA without breaking the terms of their employment. As I said, the fine was on the harsh side, but not to an extent that made it too much.
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Old 31st August 2007, 11:19   #184
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http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/south...ry/309117.html

Hardly a loss.
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Old 31st August 2007, 11:20   #185
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It seems white players take up Kolpak contracts because of disenchantment about selection. Now Garnet Kruger is claiming that black and coloured players are discriminated against.

Do you think the problems is that most South African cricketers think that they deserve international selection? For the record Kruger didn't impress me that much during the few times he did get to bowl against us in 2006. I recall Telemachus and Peterson claiming after the World Cup that they didn't get enough opportunities to play games in the Caribbean but I doubt they deserved selection on merit so maybe this is the wider problem with quotas in that they elevate people's hopes and suggest that they should be satisfied merely to be selected in the squad.

The Kruger story.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/aust...ry/309117.html
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Old 31st August 2007, 11:21   #186
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i'm sure he'll be very useful to the English game
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Old 31st August 2007, 12:16   #187
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I think South Africa are going to have to start playing 15 players in their teams.

Seriously, when are these players going to stop using the 'lack of opportunity' excuse as cover for a perfectly legitimate career decision based on earning potential. Especially when they try to claim racism at the same time.
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Old 31st August 2007, 12:42   #188
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I'm at a loss. Telemachus, Kruger and co. were selected as backup. The fact that they were on form is irrelevant as it requires the first choice players to get injured or lose form for them to play, not some sort of rotation policy. Telemachus didn't play in the world cup because we had Pollock, Hall, Langeveld etc to choose from when Ntini lost form.

Kruger isn't the first player to get called up and then not play or play little. As said above, it's a 15 man sqaud, not a 15 man team. Someone has to carry the drinks.
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Old 31st August 2007, 12:50   #189
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I'm at a loss. Telemachus, Kruger and co. were selected as backup. The fact that they were on form is irrelevant as it requires the first choice players to get injured or lose form for them to play, not some sort of rotation policy. Telemachus didn't play in the world cup because we had Pollock, Hall, Langeveld etc to choose from when Ntini lost form.

Kruger isn't the first player to get called up and then not play or play little. As said above, it's a 15 man sqaud, not a 15 man team. Someone has to carry the drinks.

Fully agree which bears out my point that those who don't get selected (which many seem to think they have a divine right to) seem to take their stumps and head straight to England. To me Kruger didn't look like the sort of guy who commands a place readily in the team. IIRC he was annoyed that the team sent for reinforcements (Steyn, VDW) when the likes of Kallis and Nel went down with injuries in Australia. He probably figured that as someone who was originally selected in the squad that he should have been used before them. But as I understand, that was the test squad and they called for these extra guys when the injuries occurred. Also one could mount a case for VDW being a bit unlucky in having to bide his time for selection. But I mentioned this following Telemachus's comments post-World Cup, if these blokes are genuine quota selections they will struggle to get picked save in emergencies but they are going to get regularly peeved off. It's one of the problems with a 'quota' or 'target' system but then again there were worse gigs around than holidaying in the Caribbean. Tele's profligate performance in that 438 world record game should have indicated to him that he's not necessarily world class. I thought his arm action was very low and he looked nothing better than an honest trundler. Plus he kept bowling no balls, even when we had passed 400.
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Old 31st August 2007, 13:12   #190
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Being rested because he adds no value to the team (which, we explained to you earlier, he doesn't in 20/20) compared to other choices isn't weakening the team. It isn't cheapening the tournament. The SA public - apart from the three drool-as-you-types you like to refer to as a "forum" - knows that the strongest team has been picked with regards to Kallis (Langeveld and Hall's ommisions are arguable).

Good diversion from your ealier glaring ommisions with regards to Boucher's punishment though. Nothing new there either.
More evidence of top recent form.
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Old 31st August 2007, 13:12   #191
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I'm not getting into the discussion on the merits of Telemachus again.

If Kruger was a "genuine quota selection" the management team would not have been allowed to not play him. Anyone who had forced his selection in the squad would have in turn forced his selection in the team once the injuries came up.

VDW and Steyn are good examples of guys who got called up to a squad, got a little taste and were then dropped. They then went back to domestic cricket and plugged away until their reselection was "forced" based on performance.

Kruger is 30 and not that great, he probably just realises his opportunities are limited with young guys like Steyn, Morkel and Philander coming through.
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Old 31st August 2007, 13:30   #192
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Quite amusing the timing of his tirade considering two young black players (Tshaba and Philander) have recently made it into the squad, and are consistently getting games (in fact 3 with Duminy although he's been around before). Of course in their case they are actually good enough (or in Tshaba's case; talented enough) to make the first 11, unlike Kruger. It's all too easy to blame the unusual system when you just aren't good enough or aren't putting in the performances. Happy to see the back of him, there's no place for that attitude or him as a player considering the bowling talent we have coming through.

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Old 31st August 2007, 13:37   #193
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More evidence of top recent form.
Thanks, got to take advantage while I can
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Old 31st August 2007, 13:43   #194
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Quite amusing the timing of his tirade considering two young black players (Tshaba and Philander) have recently made it into the squad, and are consistently getting games (in fact 3 with Duminy although he's been around before). Of course in their case they are actually good enough (or in Tshaba's case; talented enough) to make the first 11, unlike Kruger. It's all too easy to blame the unusual system when you just aren't good enough or aren't putting in the performances. Happy to see the back of him, there's no place for that attitude or him as a player considering the bowling talent we have coming through.
Yes, too many players using quotas, or perceived quotas or agendas, as a reason to justify their angst.
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Old 31st August 2007, 14:08   #195
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Yes, too many players using quotas, or perceived quotas or agendas, as a reason to justify their angst.
It would never happen on a message board.
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Old 31st August 2007, 14:18   #196
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i might try it
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Old 31st August 2007, 14:35   #197
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While Kruger runs off a bigger concern is eased. Thank **** for that!
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Old 31st August 2007, 14:45   #198
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Maybe it was his attitude that kept him out of the side. There are many better bowlers than him who can't get into the team. Leics are where they deserve to be at number 17 of the 18 counties when they pick so many Kolpaks.
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Old 31st August 2007, 15:00   #199
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While Kruger runs off a bigger concern is eased. Thank **** for that!
I seriously don't think he would ever walk away from SA cricket. If he stays around for another four years or so he'll build a record which will establish him as your greatest ever player and I think that will mean a lot to him. Interesting that he mentioned how much money other countries were splashing around in the hope of winning his services. I know that kiwi cricket is concerned with their lack of financial resources compared with other nations. Maybe the lure of the pound and England offering so much to woo players is becoming a slight problem in international cricket if we're genuinely concerned about keeping everyone in their native land. Ditto the money being offered by the rebel Indian league and the West Indian billionaire.
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Old 31st August 2007, 15:22   #200
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There was probably little chance that he'd give up on SA but you never know and these things can escalate.

I'm not sure what can be done to counter the lure of the pound. It's something we had to live with with Packer and the rebel tours. Hopefully more people have the attitude that Kallis does preferring to play for his country.
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