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Old 15th July 2009, 12:49   #1
chris
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Ireland - the 11th Test Nation?

Right, before anyone reads any further I'd like to make it clear that presently I don't believe that Ireland are close to being ready for test cricket yet. However, as their recent results have proved, they are comfortably the best of the associate nations and could probably claim to be on a par with Zimbabwe/Bangladesh. So shouldn't the ICC, perhaps with the ECBs help, be grooming them to become the next test nation?

The last 3 months have seen them whitewash Kenya in an ODI series and for the second tournament in a row outperform a test nation in a world cup - the latest time being deprived of their 2 best players.

So what steps could be taken to allow Ireland to take the next step? Personally I'd like to see an annual 4 day England Lions match (with Joyce and Morgan being allowed to represent Ireland) or even a few 3 day games against counties in early season. This would certainly be more beneficial for the counties than putting teams out against University XIs some of whom contain players that wouldn't make Minor County 1st XIs.

Does anyone agree with me that something should be done to expedite Irelands progress? Or do people think that test cricket has too many average teams currently and should be just for the very elite?
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Old 15th July 2009, 12:54   #2
ChivaIsDead
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We had this discussion in an unrelated thread not too long ago and generally agreed that Ireland had the basis of a decent Test side and probably should be moving towards assuming Test status - it is the next logical step for one of the few progressive cricketing nations outside of the top 9 'major' nations. Seeing as Morgan and Joyce are yet to play Test Cricket for England it would be logical to allow them to play for Ireland. If you look at the team they could field (anyone with greater knowledge of Irish cricket is free to fill in the gaps), they really have the spine of a side already:

William Porterfield (c)

Ed Joyce
Eoin Morgan
Niall O'Brien (wk)

Kevin O'Brien

Kyle McCallan

Boyd Rankin
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Old 15th July 2009, 13:10   #3
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Personally I think they need more of an infrastructure at the level below and a higher number of professional cricketers - something on the lines of the Rugby provinces - Ulster, Munster, Connaught and Leinster - they could then compete with each other and would give, say, 50 cricketers to choose from all playing regularly. This might encourage promising youngsters to continue with the game and increase the overall standard.

Obviously this requires a substantial investment by the Irish cricket board, which may not be feasible, but would suggest this would be the way to make them truly competitive at international level
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Old 15th July 2009, 13:19   #4
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Originally Posted by sweatysock View Post
Personally I think they need more of an infrastructure at the level below and a higher number of professional cricketers - something on the lines of the Rugby provinces - Ulster, Munster, Connaught and Leinster - they could then compete with each other and would give, say, 50 cricketers to choose from all playing regularly. This might encourage promising youngsters to continue with the game and increase the overall standard.

Obviously this requires a substantial investment by the Irish cricket board, which may not be feasible, but would suggest this would be the way to make them truly competitive at international level
I must say I totally agree with this, perhaps a 6 state "Celtic League" with a couple of Scottish teams thrown into the mix and asmall allocation of overseas pros would be beneficial. How feasible it would be may be a different story however.
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Old 15th July 2009, 15:06   #5
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Test cricket is dying anyway. At least thet's what the ICC are trying to tell everybody.
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Old 15th July 2009, 16:00   #6
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I think they should be playing test cricket right now. There are the obvious problems, and they wouldn't win anything. But there's not much more to prove at their current level. It's only in test cricket's own interest to have as many teams involved as possible. It would give young players more to strive for, and eventually they would be competitive of sorts.

Money is an obvious problem, and a start would be playing ODIs against Test nations. I suppose any team touring England could show up for at least two ODIs in Ireland. Also I agree with the call for an extension to playing opportunities at the top level. The FP Trophy is a nice start, but it's only 8 games, and there's always rain. Ireland, Scotland and the Netherlands could play in the English 20/20 competitions as well.

While we're at it, how did the transition work for Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, and how long did it take? Did they have better structures to work with? I assume that Bangladesh did, at least in quantity.
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Old 15th July 2009, 18:21   #7
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I said elsewhere that we need to question the validity of test cricket between or against the weaker nations -WI, Bang, Zim and maybe even NZ (although they are in a healthier state than the others). The ICC has suggested going to a two tier test system, and they also want to experiment with the test format. It would, perhaps, offer an interesting opportunity that if a second tier of test cricket was created say including these 3 or 4 teams, plus Ireland, they could play more regular series of four-day "tests" and ODIs/T20s.

Ireland playing test cricket against any of the top few nations would be as embarassing as Bangladesh or Zimbabwe.
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Old 15th July 2009, 19:10   #8
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
Right, before anyone reads any further I'd like to make it clear that presently I don't believe that Ireland are close to being ready for test cricket yet. However, as their recent results have proved, they are comfortably the best of the associate nations and could probably claim to be on a par with Zimbabwe/Bangladesh. So shouldn't the ICC, perhaps with the ECBs help, be grooming them to become the next test nation?

The last 3 months have seen them whitewash Kenya in an ODI series and for the second tournament in a row outperform a test nation in a world cup - the latest time being deprived of their 2 best players.

So what steps could be taken to allow Ireland to take the next step? Personally I'd like to see an annual 4 day England Lions match (with Joyce and Morgan being allowed to represent Ireland) or even a few 3 day games against counties in early season. This would certainly be more beneficial for the counties than putting teams out against University XIs some of whom contain players that wouldn't make Minor County 1st XIs.

Does anyone agree with me that something should be done to expedite Irelands progress? Or do people think that test cricket has too many average teams currently and should be just for the very elite?
I agree with all of this. An England v Ireland test should be an annual event, especially during the IPL months.
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Old 15th July 2009, 19:15   #9
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Originally Posted by Chivalry Augustus View Post
We had this discussion in an unrelated thread not too long ago and generally agreed that Ireland had the basis of a decent Test side and probably should be moving towards assuming Test status - it is the next logical step for one of the few progressive cricketing nations outside of the top 9 'major' nations. Seeing as Morgan and Joyce are yet to play Test Cricket for England it would be logical to allow them to play for Ireland. If you look at the team they could field (anyone with greater knowledge of Irish cricket is free to fill in the gaps), they really have the spine of a side already:

William Porterfield (c)
Eoin Morgan
Ed Joyce
Alex Cusack
Niall O'Brien (wk)
Andre Botha
Kevin O'Brien
Trent Johnson
Kyle McCallan
Peter Connell
Boyd Rankin
Reserves

Andy White
Jeremy Bray
Regan West
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Old 15th July 2009, 19:17   #10
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Personally I think they need more of an infrastructure at the level below and a higher number of professional cricketers - something on the lines of the Rugby provinces - Ulster, Munster, Connaught and Leinster - they could then compete with each other and would give, say, 50 cricketers to choose from all playing regularly. This might encourage promising youngsters to continue with the game and increase the overall standard.

Obviously this requires a substantial investment by the Irish cricket board, which may not be feasible, but would suggest this would be the way to make them truly competitive at international level
Ive argued this for years, though Connaught would be hard pressed to produce a team. Ulster and Leinster would dominate.
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Old 16th July 2009, 16:35   #11
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Ireland have done well, since I doubt if cricket is played in schools there. The problem is the leakage of potential test prospects to England.
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Old 16th July 2009, 18:28   #12
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Ireland have done well, since I doubt if cricket is played in schools there. The problem is the leakage of potential test prospects to England.
Its certainly played at school level, certainly at the grammar schools, to quite a reasonable standard as well. I played it at school. The problem is that it stops at club level.
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Old 16th July 2009, 23:41   #13
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Can they be much worse than Bangladesh or an emasculated Windies?
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Old 19th July 2009, 16:39   #14
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Originally Posted by Chivalry Augustus View Post
We had this discussion in an unrelated thread not too long ago and generally agreed that Ireland had the basis of a decent Test side and probably should be moving towards assuming Test status - it is the next logical step for one of the few progressive cricketing nations outside of the top 9 'major' nations. Seeing as Morgan and Joyce are yet to play Test Cricket for England it would be logical to allow them to play for Ireland. If you look at the team they could field (anyone with greater knowledge of Irish cricket is free to fill in the gaps), they really have the spine of a side already:

William Porterfield (c)

Ed Joyce
Eoin Morgan
Niall O'Brien (wk)

Kevin O'Brien

Kyle McCallan

Boyd Rankin
It's a decent start with those players in the mix, especially the younger ones.
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Old 26th July 2009, 18:57   #15
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Ireland have done well, since I doubt if cricket is played in schools there. The problem is the leakage of potential test prospects to England.
Cricket is barely played in schools in England, and has not been taken seriously outside the public school system for years, therefore as it has not been a problem in England, it needn't be a problem in Ireland.
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Old 30th July 2009, 17:38   #16
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Paul Connell dropped for 17 year old seamer, Shane Getcake. Doesnt sound much like an Irish name to me. No matter, it does prove the strength of depth of the Ireland set-up.
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Old 30th July 2009, 17:42   #17
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is the 17 year old a relative of Mike Gatting?
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Old 30th July 2009, 17:51   #18
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is the 17 year old a relative of Mike Gatting?
Naa, turns out he is called Getkate not Getcake. Think he's of saffer descent. He's going to be massive, you heard it here first.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 07:34   #19
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Naa, turns out he is called Getkate not Getcake. Think he's of saffer descent. He's going to be massive, you heard it here first.
So he will be like Gatting then. Where's HDNB?
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Old 2nd August 2009, 10:17   #20
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So he will be like Gatting then. Where's HDNB?
No idea, but Ireland are favourites for the women's championships.

http://www.cricketeurope4.net/DATABA...2/006285.shtml
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