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Old 10th August 2015, 22:42   #21
CDogg16
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If Ireland win the Intercontintal Cup will they become a perm enact Test nation, or do they just get to play a one off game?
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Old 15th August 2015, 21:41   #22
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I was looking at the Ireland line up in their last game and compared it to the West Indies line up. Not sure if anyone agrees but I think Ireland would have a real chance, which makes the decisions not to allow them to play Test cricket all the more disappointing.

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Old 15th August 2015, 22:10   #23
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I was looking at the Ireland line up in their last game and compared it to the West Indies line up. Not sure if anyone agrees but I think Ireland would have a real chance, which makes the decisions not to allow m to play Test cricket all the more disappointing.
I think Ireland could have easily shown more gumption than that recent performances from the so called big 3 let alone Windies.

I mean I reckon the Irish could have easily played the moving ball better than the Aussies have done in the last 2 tests. Their bowling of course would be unlikely to be so dangerous mind.

Just been in Ireland (well Lisburn/Belfast) for a couple of days too.
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Old 15th August 2015, 22:41   #24
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Last time Ireland played a very scratch England side, albeit in an ODI and in rainy conditions, think England tore their top order apart for very few runs. I don't really see Ireland having the players for test cricket at this point, in either batting or bowling.
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Old 16th August 2015, 16:06   #25
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Last time Ireland played a very scratch England side, albeit in an ODI and in rainy conditions, think England tore their top order apart for very few runs. I don't really see Ireland having the players for test cricket at this point, in either batting or bowling.
Really? Their not world beaters but they have a line up that would at least be competitive. Porterfield, Joyce, Wilson, the O'Briens and Dockrell are all good county performers and wouldn't be overwhelmed playing the likes of Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, or even the West Indies.

I think Rankin has also said he plans to play for Ireland again, so they have the nucleus of a good side.

The trouble is when they play England the conditions in Ireland are about the same as in England, so the England bowlers should perform well. If they played other teams I doubt they would adapt so well.
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Old 16th August 2015, 17:50   #26
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Really? Their not world beaters but they have a line up that would at least be competitive. Porterfield, Joyce, Wilson, the O'Briens and Dockrell are all good county performers and wouldn't be overwhelmed playing the likes of Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, or even the West Indies.

I think Rankin has also said he plans to play for Ireland again, so they have the nucleus of a good side.

The trouble is when they play England the conditions in Ireland are about the same as in England, so the England bowlers should perform well. If they played other teams I doubt they would adapt so well.
I think you're overstating the merits of the players you list. They might just be adequate to avoid humiliation against the weaker test nations, certainly playing at home but you're mentioning a bunch of guys who were at best marginal for England consideration at their peaks. Joyce and Rankin are the only ones I'd regard as having a really decent county record. Porterfield and the O'Briens all average in the 30-35 range. Dockrell is reasonable, I suppose.

The final point cuts both ways: the Irish players might do okay in familiar conditions at home and in England (and probably NZ) but far less well elsewhere.

If test cricket were to be more structurally split into two divisions Ireland could potentially compete in the second of them.
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Old 16th August 2015, 22:54   #27
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Just can't see where this supposed strength is, if honest. Dockerell has been kicked around the counties a bit recently as well.
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Old 17th August 2015, 16:16   #28
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I would say the Irish team is better than Zimbabwe, as shown by recent WC performances. They have some decent players now and the only way they will develop is to play Test cricket, to inspire a future generation as much as anything.

I know it's not the same but look at some of the Northants batsmen against Australia, including Coetzer (Scotland.) Players performances do usually rise if they are playing a higher quality opposition.
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Old 17th August 2015, 16:26   #29
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I don't think you can easily judge potential for test cricket by looking at the fifty over World Cup but even accepting that dubious contention, Ireland being better than Zimbabwe wouldn't suffice to make a good case for a promotion to test cricket. At present, Zimbabwe isn't good enough for test cricket; voluntarily suspended itself from tests for a while and plays very few still. While there's little appetite for formally removing test status, Zim is not currently and is unlikely soon to be a serious test nation. Having a similar or slightly better eleventh test nation would serve no useful purpose.
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Old 11th November 2015, 15:08   #30
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I think you're overstating the merits of the players you list. They might just be adequate to avoid humiliation against the weaker test nations, certainly playing at home but you're mentioning a bunch of guys who were at best marginal for England consideration at their peaks. Joyce and Rankin are the only ones I'd regard as having a really decent county record. Porterfield and the O'Briens all average in the 30-35 range. Dockrell is reasonable, I suppose.

The final point cuts both ways: the Irish players might do okay in familiar conditions at home and in England (and probably NZ) but far less well elsewhere.

If test cricket were to be more structurally split into two divisions Ireland could potentially compete in the second of them.
Agree with all of that. Irish players perform decently in county cricket, some even for England , and while some may seek to play for England because Tests are inaccessible at present for Ireland, how many cut the mustard when they get a chance for England?

Answer is Morgan has more or less made an ODI career for England, but his Test career is long in time but limited in caps.

They probably would "hold their own" against the weaker Test nations and maybe have the odd shock draw or even win maybe against others in conditions that suit, but (Test) cricket doesn't need more fixtures and they'd be like Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh when they started - struggling to get more than the odd 1-2 Tests against anyone but the weaker sides.



I can't see that tiered cricket isn't inevitable IF it is decided cricket should expand at international level. At the moment Zimbabwe and Bangladesh play the weaker of the other Test nations as much as they can and hope for the odd series against the bigger guns, how much different is that to playing in 2 tiers?!?!? (other than Australia, England etc wouldn't have those fixtures to fulfil out of obligation)

It's an inevitable shift, instead of people pushing to increase Test nations to 11 why not push to get the structure revised instead? Even if it isn't tiers, maybe something like the yanks do in yankball, it is worth looking at over too many Test nations when we already have I'd gauge 2 too many - Zimbabwe were added just before South Africa were reinstated as I recall which bumped it up to 1 more, then Bangladesh who are probably still some way off being (the level needed and) ready to join.
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Old 11th November 2015, 18:39   #31
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Or maybe just tell them to quit going on about test cricket and focus on ODIs and T20Is?

Afghanistan probably ahead of Ireland anyhow.
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Old 21st December 2015, 19:22   #32
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Delighted to hear that Boyd Rankin will be representing Ireland in the world t20. Badly mistreated during the dregs of the Flower era, he deserves another go at the international game.
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Old 21st December 2015, 19:28   #33
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I keep banging on about it, but still maintain 2 divisions of 6 teams with promotion and relegation of one team every few years is the future for Test cricket
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Old 21st December 2015, 19:41   #34
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I keep banging on about it, but still maintain 2 divisions of 6 teams with promotion and relegation of one team every few years is the future for Test cricket
The future of test cricket may require looking back to its past, that is just the six or seven test sides playing fewer but longer series. I feel the associates should focus on the shorter forms.
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Old 21st December 2015, 19:46   #35
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Delighted to hear that Boyd Rankin will be representing Ireland in the world t20. Badly mistreated during the dregs of the Flower era, he deserves another go at the international game.
Agreed, but there's a bit of a list of those, isn't there?

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I keep banging on about it, but still maintain 2 divisions of 6 teams with promotion and relegation of one team every few years is the future for Test cricket
This is all very well, but the ICC has taken away money from everyone bar 3 nations over the last couple of years and this is now really kicking in. Who is going to fund it unless the BCCI/CA/ECB have a moment of self reflection and realise that they have put cricket outside their realm on the fast road to ruin.

People can have a chuckle at some of the franchise cricket going on around the world, and it is not my cup of tea at all, but the fact is that is the only way for some of those boards to earn some money. Boards like Sri Lanka/Pakistan and the West Indies are really not well off. South Africa might be going the same way as well. As time goes on they may have less of an inclination to go and actually play test cricket if they are don't have the funds to support a first class infrastructure. I'm far from Mark Nicholas's biggest fan but he's bang on about cricket in this article.

What will happen if the variety of the international calendar detracts. Will the TV money, that has been very prominent in the last 10 years continue to be as big if in future the opposition become marginalised and uncompetitive. I'm far from the only who got bored of 3 Ashes in 2 years and I don't feel very inclined to buy a ticket for a game against India when they next tour here if they serve up the dross they produced at the Oval last year. You might recall that certain games were far from sold out on that tour, Southampton being one.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/952847.html
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Old 21st December 2015, 20:06   #36
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Agreed, but there's a bit of a list of those, isn't there?
And he's not even the one worst treated.

*looks mournfully out of the window*
*whistles lament*

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This is all very well, but the ICC has taken away money from everyone bar 3 nations over the last couple of years and this is now really kicking in. Who is going to fund it unless the BCCI/CA/ECB have a moment of self reflection and realise that they have put cricket outside their realm on the fast road to ruin.

People can have a chuckle at some of the franchise cricket going on around the world, and it is not my cup of tea at all, but the fact is that is the only way for some of those boards to earn some money. Boards like Sri Lanka/Pakistan and the West Indies are really not well off. South Africa might be going the same way as well. As time goes on they may have less of an inclination to go and actually play test cricket if they are don't have the funds to support a first class infrastructure. I'm far from Mark Nicholas's biggest fan but he's bang on about cricket in this article.

What will happen if the variety of the international calendar detracts. Will the TV money, that has been very prominent in the last 10 years continue to be as big if in future the opposition become marginalised and uncompetitive. I'm far from the only who got bored of 3 Ashes in 2 years and I don't feel very inclined to buy a ticket for a game against India when they next tour here if they serve up the dross they produced at the Oval last year. You might recall that certain games were far from sold out on that tour, Southampton being one.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/952847.html
Test series don't need to be regular.

In fact they would be better if they were less frequent. Create some novelty so that a player only once has a chance to play tests in Australia or say Sri Lanka during their career. It adds importance to the occasion. The series will be more keenly anticipated - like this South Africa series as opposed to the rubbish Ashes this summer.

If T20 is three-four times a year with Big Bash, IPL, English version and whatever else, then test cricket will be seen as the pinnacle, like the Olympics is in athletics or like the Lions are in rugby or the World Cup is in football.

The trouble is the ECB won't cut down as it's their major source of funding.
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Old 21st December 2015, 20:12   #37
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my point is that it might enhance the interest of the teams in both divisions and also allow the likes of WI and Bang, for example, to focus more on the shorter formats, without diverting unnecessary resources to the longer ones. Over time they may then have enough resources to be truly competitive in both, something neither can do currently. I think it might actually help them
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Old 21st December 2015, 20:27   #38
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We're slightly off topic now, but I like the format the women are using where the series winner is determined over all three formats.

For the current WI tour of Australia only weather or cautious captaincy will likely prevent three innings victories for the hosts. However if the series was over all three formats, with just one test, its unlikely but not unimaginable that the windies might make things a little closer.

England and Australia have forced the icc to wed themselves to the concept that test cricket being the key to the brand. It is not and the adage of less is more needs to be applied. After all, the great era of test cricket in the 70s and 80s had only six sides...
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Old 21st December 2015, 21:38   #39
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I'd be the first to agree that there needs to be less international cricket and not more, but the ECB and Sky have wedded themselves to the ideaof tests a year which means two touring teas every year, when this didn't use to always be the case before the turn of the century. From what I remember, in the mid 90s you had Windies only over in 95 Ind/Pak in 96, Australia only 97, SA for 5 tests with SL for 1 98 and only NZ for 4 tests in World Cup year 99. Ever since then, a convoluted programme that inevitably shortens many a player's career and with a surfeit of limited overs cricket to boot. It would require both the board and the TV companies to be less greedy. Do you reckon that's going to happen in the immediate future.
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Old 21st December 2015, 21:45   #40
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I'd be the first to agree that there needs to be less international cricket and not more, but the ECB and Sky have wedded themselves to the ideaof tests a year which means two touring teas every year, when this didn't use to always be the case before the turn of the century. From what I remember, in the mid 90s you had Windies only over in 95 Ind/Pak in 96, Australia only 97, SA for 5 tests with SL for 1 98 and only NZ for 4 tests in World Cup year 99. Ever since then, a convoluted programme that inevitably shortens many a player's career and with a surfeit of limited overs cricket to boot. It would require both the board and the TV companies to be less greedy. Do you reckon that's going to happen in the immediate future.
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