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Old 28th December 2017, 08:15   #161
Michelle Fivefer
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Cook needs just 48 runs to reach 12000 test runs. Two more to pass Brian Lara's total.
He’s already passed Lara.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/con...ds/223646.html
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:20   #162
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MPV banging on about getting Aus in to bat now while they’re tired. NO NO NO. Eng must stay out there as long as possible. Get the runs now, fewer to chase on day 5, surely?
Looked at how many runs England have scored in the whole Test across the last 4 Ashes series so 18 Tests. They've won once scoring just over 500 runs, apart from that they lost every single Test they didn't score 600+ runs in

300-599 : P12 W1 D0 L11
600+ : P6 W2 D1 L3

I was looking at this as I knew even when England put up a decent total they too often fail to bat well enough second time around. Those three wins were of course on the winning tour not the 0-5s which they're looking to avoid this time around.

It's not even as if all those aussie sides were star studded, only in 06/07 was it a very strong aussie side and even then it was stars coming to the end of their careers.
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:21   #163
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I can admire Cooks concentration, but it all feels a bit 200 runs too late.
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:24   #164
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Re batting on - Exactly.
Precisely. They'll need all the runs they can get. Needed 50-75 just to negate the disadvantage of batting last, and the aussies will no doubt score 200+ so not much gain in declaring unless they were confident the aussies wouldn't be 100 without loss again.

I'm sure they'll be all out soon enough in the morning, and that will be the exact right time to change innings.......... 5+ sessions which the aussies will be looking to bat through, and the bigger the lead the longer it will be before England go on the defensive which will probably happen whilst they are still 50-100 runs ahead
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:26   #165
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Precisely. They'll need all the runs they can get. Needed 50-75 just to negate the disadvantage of batting last, and the aussies will no doubt score 200+ so not much gain in declaring unless they were confident the aussies wouldn't be 100 without loss again.

I'm sure they'll be all out soon enough in the morning, and that will be the exact right time to change innings.......... 5+ sessions which the aussies will be looking to bat through, and the bigger the lead the longer it will be before England go on the defensive which will probably happen whilst they are still 50-100 runs ahead
Are you looking to draw first, as to avoid the whitewash, or win the test though?
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:29   #166
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Yes. Cricinfo appeared to be a bit slow this morning. Probably why I rarely use it now.
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:32   #167
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I can admire Cooks concentration, but it all feels a bit 200 runs too late.
Well we are all aware that England have been woeful, allowing the Ashes to slip through their fingers in three games. The Ashes being lost, of course Cook’s innings is too late.

However, we are where we are. There is a target for England and it is to avoid the shame of another whitewash. And Cook’s return to form has been timely in this respect.
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:35   #168
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I can admire Cooks concentration, but it all feels a bit 200 runs too late.
Like hammering an opponent the game after your side has been relegated.

No doubt it will secure his future, although the selectors would no doubt have let him decide when to quit.

Whilst SVaG may be getting in the early blows re excluding his double, do you take the norm or the exception? The double will improve his figures significantly, you need to look at his longer term form not just his one off innings which is THREE TIMES what he's scored in the rest of the series

I'll simply show two figures :

Cook between double hundreds : 10 inns, 144 runs @ 14.40
Cook last 12 innings : 12 inns, 631 runs @ 57.36

Which is the better reflection of what he's been doing most innings? Throw in his figures all inclusive since Pakistan

Cook since Pakistan : 32 inns, 1274 runs @ 41.10

Nothing wrong with his form whatsoever, look the figures tell you. What I will tell you is 487 of those runs came in two doubles, when he's not scoring a double he's averaged 26.23 so those doubles add near 15 runs to his average which is why you can't just ignore that fact.

Or to put it a way those who don't like such practices might understand, if there were nothing wrong with Cook's form then you could take away those doubles and it wouldn't cripple his figures.......
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:41   #169
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Well we are all aware that England have been woeful, allowing the Ashes to slip through their fingers in three games. The Ashes being lost, of course Cook’s innings is too late.

However, we are where we are. There is a target for England and it is to avoid the shame of another whitewash. And Cook’s return to form has been timely in this respect.
It will be an 'and they all lived happily ever after....." story, despite being humbled badly in three Tests all the usual players will carry on as usual, basking in any glories and playing down any embarrassing results, welcoming back the brute into the side as soon as they can whilst using his absence as an excuse for poor performances......

Ali will continue to be the true king of spin, amazing everyone with his batting when he actually puts on a score but raising few eyebrows when he too often doesn't, and Root will continue to be captain average, the benchmark set by many captain before him and applying the same weak skills he learned from his predecessor who learned it from his and so on.....



It's a shame there are as many poor results as there are glorious victories, and the irony in SVaG's comments is that ignoring of certain things is typical of an England fan sweeping under the carpet the results don't fit in with how they want to see England
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:46   #170
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Well maybe Cook and Broad didn’t do it until the Ashes were gone but at least they’ve done something in the series.

This game is a long way from being won though.
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:56   #171
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Are you looking to draw first, as to avoid the whitewash, or win the test though?
If you discount the weather it really doesn't matter. England are only 164 runs ahead, it's not as though Australia are going to bat 6 sessions and not get 164 runs! Ideally England would bat on for another session and a half but that's obviously not going to happen being 9 down.
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Old 28th December 2017, 09:13   #172
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England in the box seat, but if Australia anchors down on this flat pitch, a draw can still be salvaged.

No doubt Cook is the best around at putting his head down when concentration is the ingredient most needed in building an innings. There must still be question marks over him though when the ball is moving and the attack is formidable. Starc being out, and Cummins being slightly off colour has weakened the Aussies here, though admittedly England has knuckled down and wants to avoid a whitewash.
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Old 28th December 2017, 09:53   #173
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It will be an 'and they all lived happily ever after....." story, despite being humbled badly in three Tests all the usual players will carry on as usual, basking in any glories and playing down any embarrassing results, welcoming back the brute into the side as soon as they can whilst using his absence as an excuse for poor performances......

Ali will continue to be the true king of spin, amazing everyone with his batting when he actually puts on a score but raising few eyebrows when he too often doesn't, and Root will continue to be captain average, the benchmark set by many captain before him and applying the same weak skills he learned from his predecessor who learned it from his and so on.....

It's a shame there are as many poor results as there are glorious victories, and the irony in SVaG's comments is that ignoring of certain things is typical of an England fan sweeping under the carpet the results don't fit in with how they want to see England
If by ‘the brute’ you mean Ben Stokes, I have to say again that before the ‘incident’ and with Stokes expected to be in the squad, England’s chances of winning the Ashes were rated as almost zero. The idea that they only plummeted after Stokes’s exclusion is simply incorrect. We might have put up more of a fight though.

One depressing feature of message boards is the propensity for over-egging the doom and gloom and the moralising by superior beings about inferior beings gratefully accepting the small crumbs of comfort offered by a record-breaking innings by an out-of-form batsman.

Yes, sport is about winning. Cricket is mainly about winning, obviously. But cricket cherishes its traditions, landmarks and records. When someone makes a double century that beats his previous highest score in Australia and moves him up to sixth highest test run-scorer (overtaking Brian Lara) then this is to be celebrated, even when it’s “too little, too late” and “why didn’t he do it two weeks ago.”.

At least the England supporters there at the MCG appreciated his efforts and found something to cheer.
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Old 28th December 2017, 09:56   #174
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Yes. Cricinfo appeared to be a bit slow this morning. Probably why I rarely use it now.
I also heard them say it on the radio.
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Old 28th December 2017, 10:03   #175
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Pity Cook did not have this form from the start..with Moeen defunct, Root in timid mode and no Stokes we were doomed..great knock Chef..
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Old 28th December 2017, 10:26   #176
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Pity Cook did not have this form from the start..with Moeen defunct, Root in timid mode and no Stokes we were doomed..great knock Chef..
As the song goes, “Could we start again, please?”
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Old 28th December 2017, 10:31   #177
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Well played Alastair but the rest of the batting was a bit of a rabble. I can’t believe Malan didn’t review his lbw and the decision to give Broad out was absolutely outrageous. This is a good lead but England will need to bowl very well to get themselves into a winning position.
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Old 28th December 2017, 10:42   #178
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Has Cook ever carried his bat?
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Old 28th December 2017, 10:44   #179
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Like hammering an opponent the game after your side has been relegated.

No doubt it will secure his future, although the selectors would no doubt have let him decide when to quit.

Whilst SVaG may be getting in the early blows re excluding his double, do you take the norm or the exception? The double will improve his figures significantly, you need to look at his longer term form not just his one off innings which is THREE TIMES what he's scored in the rest of the series

I'll simply show two figures :

Cook between double hundreds : 10 inns, 144 runs @ 14.40
Cook last 12 innings : 12 inns, 631 runs @ 57.36

Which is the better reflection of what he's been doing most innings? Throw in his figures all inclusive since Pakistan

Cook since Pakistan : 32 inns, 1274 runs @ 41.10

Nothing wrong with his form whatsoever, look the figures tell you. What I will tell you is 487 of those runs came in two doubles, when he's not scoring a double he's averaged 26.23 so those doubles add near 15 runs to his average which is why you can't just ignore that fact.

Or to put it a way those who don't like such practices might understand, if there were nothing wrong with Cook's form then you could take away those doubles and it wouldn't cripple his figures.......
One.

The thing is that it every other batsman in the top six did this and in different matches then we would have a good score almost every match. Sadly the others don't. Others point out the lack of big centuries so now someone gets one we hear "if you ignore those" like he should get this every match.
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Old 28th December 2017, 11:40   #180
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Those criticising Cook might do well to remember how abysmal the parade of iniquity of his opening partners has been. If you're going to drop him, you better be bloody sure that replacement will average more and deliver more - including or excluding double tons. Also, how ****ed would England be in this test without the double ton? Easy to say it's been on a flat deck, but only Cook and Warner have delivered.
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