Bowlers and Bowling

[mustardcharlie]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

Anderson would be better playing ODIs so that he gets enough bowling. Less overs will result in injuries as he is used to bowling 500-600+ overs a year not 330/350 overs. Even county bowlers bowl about 500 overs in a season. Broad is fine however many overs he bowls.

He especially needs overs before a 1st Test.

Before NZ 0 overs for 3 weeks - 6 at 43.00
Ashes 0 overs for 5 weeks - first 2 Tests 3 wickets at 71.00
UAE 85 overs with Lancs - 13 at 15.61
SA 0 overs for 8 weeks - 7 at 43.00
SL 115.5 with Lancs - 18 at 7.72

I disagree. Anderson and Broad should take no part in ODIs this year. We will need their experience in the winter if we are to win in India. By all means give them overs for Lancs/Notts and keep them match fit, but the younger guys should be doing it in the shorter forms of the game. Woakes, Finn, Ball, Stokes (if fit) etc. Not saying Broad and Anderson are past it but we do not want a team without experienced seamers when they retire. As they probably will after the next Ashes. Very few seamers can still do the biz after 35. Save them for some Aussie bashing, I say. One last time. Woakes bowled like a young Jimmy in the last test. Sometimes sparkling sometimes awful. Finn and Stokes can be devastating on their day.

[Fatslogger]

You know that Broad is much younger than Anderson? Don't think he's retiring after the Ashes for some Ashes to come.

[Ali TT]

Broad and Anderson were pretty hopeless in the last world cup, so not sure they are that essential to England's future ODI plans.

[1000yardstare]

Originally Posted by Ali TT

Broad and Anderson were pretty hopeless in the last world cup, so not sure they are that essential to England's future ODI plans.

I thought it was our batting.. It doesn't help if in the first over Woakes drops Finch off Anderson on 0 and he makes 135.

[Minor Maggie]

Originally Posted by Ali TT

Broad and Anderson were pretty hopeless in the last world cup, so not sure they are that essential to England's future ODI plans.

Morgan hasn't ruled Anderson out of playing in the next Champions trophy.

[Ali TT]

Originally Posted by Minor Maggie

Morgan hasn't ruled Anderson out of playing in the next Champions trophy.

Morgan needs to guarantee his own place in the squad before he can talk too much about others' chances.

[1000yardstare]

Originally Posted by Minor Maggie

Morgan hasn't ruled Anderson out of playing in the next Champions trophy.

Strauss is in charge. Anderson won't play ODIs again. Morgan isn't keen on being in charge of players who know more than him like Broad and Anderson.

Cricinfo

Morgan
I see stages where other people have taken over different teams around the world and they've had to come in and captain guys who have played 200 one-dayers or 100 Tests and I can understand that presents completely different challenges. But I haven't had that with this side.

[1000yardstare]

Best ODI bowlers

I have taken out anyone with economy over 5.00 and strike rate over 30.0 and have played less than 30 ODIs

48 ODIs - 95 wickets at 19.46 econ 4.82 s/r 24.2 - Starc (1.97)
30 ODIs - 54 wickets at 20.96 econ 4.58 s/r 27.4 - H Hassan (1.80)
32 ODIs - 59 wickets at 22.96 econ 4.81 s/r 28.6 - Boult (1.84)
82 ODIs - 147 wickets at 20.88 econ 4.28 s/r 29.2 - Bond (1.79)
31 ODIs - 52 wickets at 23.21 econ 4.73 s/r 29.3 - Allott (1.67)
221 ODIs - 380 wickets at 23.36 econ 4.76 s/r 29.4 - Lee (1.71)
106 ODIs - 180 wickets at 24.36 econ 4.93 s/r 29.6 - Morkel (1.69)

Starc the best ever?

[Fatslogger]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

Best ODI bowlers

I have taken out anyone with economy over 5.00 and strike rate over 30.0 and have played less than 30 ODIs

48 ODIs - 95 wickets at 19.46 econ 4.82 s/r 24.2 - Starc (1.97)
30 ODIs - 54 wickets at 20.96 econ 4.58 s/r 27.4 - H Hassan (1.80)
32 ODIs - 59 wickets at 22.96 econ 4.81 s/r 28.6 - Boult (1.84)
82 ODIs - 147 wickets at 20.88 econ 4.28 s/r 29.2 - Bond (1.79)
31 ODIs - 52 wickets at 23.21 econ 4.73 s/r 29.3 - Allott (1.67)
221 ODIs - 380 wickets at 23.36 econ 4.76 s/r 29.4 - Lee (1.71)
106 ODIs - 180 wickets at 24.36 econ 4.93 s/r 29.6 - Morkel (1.69)

Starc the best ever?

Got another 3 wickets Aus v SA, bowling them to victory when SA looked very good to chase too.

[Ali TT]

Starc is clearly very good and if he sustains it throughout his career will definitely be able to claim he's the best ever.

From those I've seen, Lee and Akram are on top.

[1000yardstare]

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news...bowl-in-tandem

Waugh told foxsports.com.au on Wednesday (June 15). "James Pattinson, Pat Cummins, Mitch Starc and Josh Hazlewood as a quartet would be as good, if not better, than any quick bowling quartet in the history of the game."

Starc 25, Hazelwood, Pattinson 17, Cummins 1
Not many great batsmen for them to bowl against nowadays.
Don't think any would get near the great West Indians.

Marshall 20.94
Garner 20.97
Ambrose 20.99
Holding 23.68

It would be great watching all four playing more than 1 Test together but I think only 3 would play with Marsh as the all rounder.

[Chin Music]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news...bowl-in-tandem

Waugh told foxsports.com.au on Wednesday (June 15). "James Pattinson, Pat Cummins, Mitch Starc and Josh Hazlewood as a quartet would be as good, if not better, than any quick bowling quartet in the history of the game."

Starc 25, Hazelwood, Pattinson 17, Cummins 1
Not many great batsmen for them to bowl against nowadays.
Don't think any would get near the great West Indians.

Marshall 20.94
Garner 20.97
Ambrose 20.99
Holding 23.68

It would be great watching all four playing more than 1 Test together but I think only 3 would play with Marsh as the all rounder.

I can't help thinking that there is more chance of many a long defunct rock band of getting back together, including those with deceased members than those lot playing in the same Aussie side.

[1000yardstare]

Zampa has really impressed me in white ball bowling. Still early days though but I feel he will be around for a long time

7 matches 13 wickets at 25.07 econ 5.21 s/r 28.8 Zampa

87 ODIs 152 wickets at 21.86 econ 4.80 s/r 27.3 - Mendis
60 ODIs 105 wickets at 23.13 econ 4.64 s/r 29.8 - Tahir

38 ODIs 39 wickets at 39.66 econ 4.96 s/r 47.9 Ali
28 ODIs 29 wickets at 45.82 econ 5.69 s/r 48.2 Rashid

[1000yardstare]

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news...st-troy-cooley.

You played a key role in James Anderson's rise to No.1 Test bowler. Your thoughts?

He has been unique and a strong-willed man. One of the things which we corrected early in his career is his tendency to run down the middle of the wicket. He is a genuine swing bowler and his action meant that his head would always fall sideways. But I feel he was very lucky to rectify his action. During the early phase of his career, he had to sit out of the team for a long time because England had too many good pacers. Then he worked with me and Lancashire coaches. That phase helped him to mature and train long enough to correct all his shortcomings.
-----

Anderson still runs down the wicket. Recently he was given two warnings and taken off. He is always asking the umpires if he is safe. During the early phase of his career he sat out of the team because he couldn't bowl well enough with all the changes he was having to make. He lost his pace and swing. After Cooley had left in Dec 05 and his stress fracture in Feb 06 did he work with Shine and Watkinson to get back to his normal action.

I wouldn't say he played a key role in Anderson's rise to the top but delayed it by 3 years.

[Ali TT]

Anderson did used to stick his head under his armpit during his release which he did rectify as he improved. Not sure that was Cooley, though

[1000yardstare]

Originally Posted by Ali TT

Anderson did used to stick his head under his armpit during his release which he did rectify as he improved. Not sure that was Cooley, though

Quite a few bowlers bowl with their head down. Pollock was one.

Akram years ago - 'He doesn't look at the batsman when he delivers but it doesn't matter because he keeps his head still'.

[Ali TT]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

Quite a few bowlers bowl with their head down. Pollock was one.

Akram years ago - 'He doesn't look at the batsman when he delivers but it doesn't matter because he keeps his head still'.

Many do, but Anderson was particularly bad. He's less so now, and a far better bowler.

[1000yardstare]

Originally Posted by Ali TT

Many do, but Anderson was particularly bad. He's less so now, and a far better bowler.

I think at the time he said his eyes are closed anyway after taking aim. I don't think that he is a better bowler because of it. Now his head wobbles a bit after delivery. You see him stetching his neck sometimes.

I think the first change of action came because of running on the wicket and not his head action. Cooley might have moved on to that next.

I wonder how long it took, after bowling about 1000 overs with the changes, to get back his old action in 2007.

[1000yardstare]

Overs bowled before Test debut

2742.0 - Woakes
2241.3 - Roland Jones*
1521.1 - Jordan
874.3 - Broad
843.5 - Stokes
837.5 - Plunkett
809.4 - Finn
727.3 - Ball*
594.3 - Wood
433.4 - Anderson

*We don't know yet which is the lucky bowler

[geoff_boycotts_grandmother]

Originally Posted by 1000yardstare

Overs bowled before Test debut

2742.0 - Woakes
2241.3 - Roland Jones*
1521.1 - Jordan
874.3 - Broad
843.5 - Stokes
837.5 - Plunkett
809.4 - Finn
727.3 - Ball*
594.3 - Wood
433.4 - Anderson

*We don't know yet which is the lucky bowler

How many was Pattinson?

(Are these easy to work out or are you adding up all their overs in which case I wan't throw up any more names...)