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Old 4th October 2007, 03:36   #401
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Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
Being tired can be a state of mind. It's possible that KP would be invigorated by the challenge of captaincy and the extra responsibility. However, I don't think he has ever captained a team at any level (may be wrong) so he would have a hell of a lot to learn. The comment about his batting was meant to be a bit flippant, although captaincy has a positive effect on some batsmen, as we know. (Off topic, I see that Chilton is still weighing up the options about the captaincy, knowing he has got to start delivering with the bat).

On the whole, I think Bell would make a better captain, but if he was offered it (if a vacancy arose) would Pietersen feel slighted?
I think the players would prefer Bell. Do you see him as a leader? They might be in awe of his batting but I can't see them being happy if he is captain.
KP did say he wanted to concentrate on his batting when the media decided he should be captain earlier on.

Chilton has roughly the same batting average as Hutton who couldn't get into the first XI and retired.
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Old 4th October 2007, 05:50   #402
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Atleast in KP you have a player who is guaranteed his place in the team...
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Old 4th October 2007, 08:43   #403
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Atleast in KP you have a player who is guaranteed his place in the team...
It's a good point. On recent batting form Collingwood might be in danger of being dropped.
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Old 4th October 2007, 09:58   #404
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Did anyone see Eggheads on Tuesday? I caught a bit of it and there was this question for Chris Hughes.

Who became the England one-day cricket captain in June 2007? Was it Kevin Pietersen, Paul Collingwood or Ian Bell?

Hughes: Well, the one-day team can be different from the test team. I know Pietersen and Collingwood are test players, but I've never heard of Ian Bell so I'll go for him.
Was he right?
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Old 4th October 2007, 11:24   #405
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Just that he thought KP should be captain instead of Collingwood because he is a genius with the bat.
In the interview I heard on TalkSport, Gough spoke a lot more about the thoguthfulness of KP the cricketer, and his input into team meetings and management groups. He also mentioned that when batting he was always thinking about places to score given the bowler's plans and current fielder positions.

I find that a much more coherent argument than any put forward for Bell, apart from the obvious fact that he's one of MF's band of favourites.
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Old 4th October 2007, 12:38   #406
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In the interview I heard on TalkSport, Gough spoke a lot more about the thoguthfulness of KP the cricketer, and his input into team meetings and management groups. He also mentioned that when batting he was always thinking about places to score given the bowler's plans and current fielder positions.

I find that a much more coherent argument than any put forward for Bell, apart from the obvious fact that he's one of MF's band of favourites.
Bell is one of my favourites, the favourite in fact, because he is a very good player and getting better. The coherent argument for him as a future captain is that he also is a thinking player, he has successful captaincy experience at junior levels and he seems to be regularly involved in on-field tactics. Bell would probably not have been on any management committees in the Fletcher era as he was a junior player then. I don't know if they still have them under Moores. The main argument against him at this moment is the possibility of giving post-match interviews on a par with the one he gave the other day re Allan Donald's decision not to stay on as England coach.

I know that Pietersen is a thinking cricketer and thinks about his own game all the time. I know that just recently he has started to look as if he is involved on the field, although previously he seemed to be in a little world of his own. He allegedly has a history of disruptiveness which has been explained away by people as caused by the envy and resentment of other players, but as far as I am aware there have been no such problems as an England player. He would still be a controversial choice as captain though. On the positive side, I think he would be a strong captain who would take no nonsense and be ruthless with under-performers. I also believe that he would perform much more to his ability with the bat if the buck stopped with him. This isn't to imply that at the moment he doesn't care as much, but I am sure that the extra responsibility would give him an extra incentive.

In fact I think I've talked myself into supporting KP as a future captain.
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Old 4th October 2007, 12:40   #407
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It's a good point. On recent batting form Collingwood might be in danger of being dropped.
Yep, averaging just 70 over his last 5 matches he better watch out and if 70 isnt enough to keep your spot then our no3 averaging just under 30 must be in real danger
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Old 4th October 2007, 13:55   #408
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Hughes: Well, the one-day team can be different from the test team. I know Pietersen and Collingwood are test players, but I've never heard of Ian Bell so I'll go for him.
I truly hate it when quiz contestants use this as a reason for an answer. Right up there with 'I wasn't born then, so how should I know when World War II started?'
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Old 4th October 2007, 13:56   #409
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I just hate Eggheads myself, truly awful programme
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Old 4th October 2007, 13:59   #410
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I truly hate it when quiz contestants use this as a reason for an answer. Right up their with 'I wasn't born then, so how should I know when World War II started?'
Best quiz answer ever for me was from the bloke on the Weakest Link who was asked :“Which Indian leader, later the subject of an Oscar Winning film by Richard Attenborough, lead the nonviolent protests against British rule until his assassination in 1948?”...

...And answered “Geronimo".
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Old 4th October 2007, 14:21   #411
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Yep, averaging just 70 over his last 5 matches he better watch out and if 70 isnt enough to keep your spot then our no3 averaging just under 30 must be in real danger
I think FS is a bit out of date re Colly's form. He has done quite well of late. But there's no question of any of Bell, Colly or KP being dropped at the moment.
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Old 4th October 2007, 15:55   #412
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I truly hate it when quiz contestants use this as a reason for an answer. Right up there with 'I wasn't born then, so how should I know when World War II started?'
One day, everyone will have heard of Ian Bell
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Old 5th October 2007, 00:29   #413
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Yep, averaging just 70 over his last 5 matches he better watch out and if 70 isnt enough to keep your spot then our no3 averaging just under 30 must be in real danger
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I think FS is a bit out of date re Colly's form. He has done quite well of late. But there's no question of any of Bell, Colly or KP being dropped at the moment.
I was actually well aware of Colly's recent form but was referring to his score in the first game of the series as an ironic nod towards C5 always using the time window that most suits his case and quite frequently just making the stats up if he has to. Of course, Bell's recent form did get a mention in C5's post but because it turns out it's quite reasonable and he's averaging just over 30 (even on the arbitrarily selected 5 game window), he fiddled the figures.

Incidentally, on last 10 games both players average a little over 50 after today's game. Both were doing a little worse on the last 10 games before today's was taken into account. It's all rather a silly and C5 like way of assessing a player though.
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Old 5th October 2007, 00:47   #414
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I was actually well aware of Colly's recent form but was referring to his score in the first game of the series as an ironic nod towards C5 always using the time window that most suits his case and quite frequently just making the stats up if he has to. Of course, Bell's recent form did get a mention in C5's post but because it turns out it's quite reasonable and he's averaging just over 30 (even on the arbitrarily selected 5 game window), he fiddled the figures.

Incidentally, on last 10 games both players average a little over 50 after today's game. Both were doing a little worse on the last 10 games before today's was taken into account. It's all rather a silly and C5 like way of assessing a player though.
I did note that C5 had chosen the last five innings including the not out innings that Colllingwood was currently enjoying which bumps the average up a bit. If he'd taken the last 10 innings, it would have been a different story. Stats have their place and ultimately are quite a good guide, but not when taken out of context. I note that on the topic of Anderson's bowling, he refused to accept any stats earlier than the current series!!!
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Old 5th October 2007, 00:52   #415
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I did note that C5 had chosen the last five innings including the not out innings that Colllingwood was currently enjoying which bumps the average up a bit. If he'd taken the last 10 innings, it would have been a different story. Stats have their place and ultimately are quite a good guide, but not when taken out of context. I note that on the topic of Anderson's bowling, he refused to accept any stats earlier than the current series!!!
I think I've said enough on the matter now and have self censored what I was about to post.
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Old 5th October 2007, 01:11   #416
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I think I've said enough on the matter now and have self censored what I was about to post.
Oh go on.
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Old 5th October 2007, 05:10   #417
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I was actually well aware of Colly's recent form but was referring to his score in the first game of the series as an ironic nod towards C5 always using the time window that most suits his case and quite frequently just making the stats up if he has to. Of course, Bell's recent form did get a mention in C5's post but because it turns out it's quite reasonable and he's averaging just over 30 (even on the arbitrarily selected 5 game window), he fiddled the figures.

Incidentally, on last 10 games both players average a little over 50 after today's game. Both were doing a little worse on the last 10 games before today's was taken into account. It's all rather a silly and C5 like way of assessing a player though.
Actually on the last 5 matches including yesterdays innings he was averaging 29.7 or something so under 30

5 matches is a good idea of current form, didnt choose it because of what the figures were

Of course if we changed it around a little more and looked at their average over the entire year then Colly is still well ahead, 47-35

And to think someone suggested we needed to drop him down the order...
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Old 5th October 2007, 17:05   #418
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Actually on the last 5 matches including yesterdays innings he was averaging 29.7 or something so under 30

5 matches is a good idea of current form, didnt choose it because of what the figures were

Of course if we changed it around a little more and looked at their average over the entire year then Colly is still well ahead, 47-35

And to think someone suggested we needed to drop him down the order...
So you looked at the averages based on the last 5 games including an innings that hadn't actually happened at the time I'd posted? Okay, interesting. I'd actually assumed you'd not included yesterday's innings because you didn't seem to have done for Collingwood. I suppose you rounded his 69 up to 70 didn't you? Only his average really was 70 otherwise.

Do you want career record? 35.5 v 38.2 I think.
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Old 1st November 2007, 02:12   #419
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I thought I'd bump this thread with a picture anticipating Bell in the test series. It makes a pleasant change from discussing Duncan Fletcher.

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Old 1st November 2007, 02:26   #420
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He will be quite excited to be batting at 3.
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