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Old 10th December 2018, 20:00   #301
Steveh
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On the field, perhaps (and only "perhaps" as he's shown he can be quite brainless sometimes).

Off it is a different matter.
Nobody is perfect all of the time, possibly apart from yourself, D/L. Stokesí commitment and effort are exemplary and his skills unquestioned.

Off the field, he appears to have learned an important life lesson in regards to alcohol, from what Iíve read.
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Old 11th December 2018, 07:52   #302
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The Sky commentary boys were staying in the same hotel as the England team in Sri Lanka. It was noted that after the day in which Stokes bowled 10 overs consecutively of brutal fast bowling, he then went to the gym. His levels of fitness don't happen by accident. It seems to me he has changed over the last 6 months and really is now becoming a role model.
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Old 11th December 2018, 10:26   #303
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Nobody is perfect all of the time, possibly apart from yourself, D/L. Stokesí commitment and effort are exemplary and his skills unquestioned.

Off the field, he appears to have learned an important life lesson in regards to alcohol, from what Iíve read.
Nobody can achieve perfection consistently but striving for it is often a good idea.

No doubt, on cricketing ability alone, Stokes is currently worth his place in the team. The point I make, though, regards the example it sets to young cricketers when he goes unpunished for bringing the game into disrepute.
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Old 11th December 2018, 17:23   #304
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I’m not defending Stokes’ behaviour, which while not meeting a legal standard of proof was clearly pretty deplorable but he has been punished.
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Old 12th December 2018, 10:08   #305
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Not as a result of the disciplinary hearing, though.

His absence from the test side happened well before that and for other reasons.
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Old 12th December 2018, 13:00   #306
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Not as a result of the disciplinary hearing, though. ...
He's been fined, I believe.
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Old 12th December 2018, 13:21   #307
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Not as a result of the disciplinary hearing, though.

His absence from the test side happened well before that and for other reasons.
His absence from the test side wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the incident though so the hearing had to consider it.
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Old 12th December 2018, 13:43   #308
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That would be to say that he had been punished in advance of the disciplinary hearing.

Is a fine sufficient punishment for the ECB to have imposed?
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Old 12th December 2018, 14:05   #309
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That would be to say that he had been punished in advance of the disciplinary hearing.

Is a fine sufficient punishment for the ECB to have imposed?
Effectively he had though not officially.
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Old 12th December 2018, 14:31   #310
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... Is a fine sufficient punishment for the ECB to have imposed?
I'd say it's sufficient to ensure that young cricketers don't perceive him to have gone unpunished. You're not a young cricketer, are you?
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Old 12th December 2018, 19:52   #311
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He was fined, he missed the biggest series in world cricket (where his team without him got smashed) and he's been humiliated in the trial.

He's done some punishment for sure.
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Old 13th December 2018, 09:13   #312
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He was fined, he missed the biggest series in world cricket (where his team without him got smashed) and he's been humiliated in the trial.

He's done some punishment for sure.
And if his non-selection for the Ashes wasn't because of that, I'd love to know what it was for.
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Old 1st January 2020, 15:42   #313
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Mixed year for Ben...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/50964381
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Old 16th February 2020, 19:06   #314
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Just wanted to put the question out there. Where does Stokes stand in terms of the best players of the last 20 years from an England perspective? The likes of Anderson, Cook and Pietersen would for me be the three who would be at the forefront of discussions, but what Stokes has done over the last year in particular is phenomenal. He is definitely the most important player in the current England squad in more than one format.

He has more than presentable records in test cricket in either discipline and a brilliant batting record in ODI cricket. His short form bowling is not so clever but as an impact cricketer, one who can change matches so spectacularly, might he have exceeded the above three as a test cricketer?

I would say Buttler and possibly Bairstow might reasonably be his peers as short form players, but even so that is hardly unfair when all have been on the fantastic journey of the ODI transformation of joke dinosaur cricket to the spectacular lineup that is such fun to watch.
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Old 16th February 2020, 19:42   #315
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I don't think Stokes is far enough into "his body of work" to compare him to players who've either finished their careers or are about to.

However, like with his predecessors as England all rounder, Flintoff and Botham, his stats don't tell all about how he can influence matches across all three disciplines at any moment.
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Old 16th February 2020, 20:24   #316
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I don't think Stokes is far enough into "his body of work" to compare him to players who've either finished their careers or are about to.

However, like with his predecessors as England all rounder, Flintoff and Botham, his stats don't tell all about how he can influence matches across all three disciplines at any moment.
He made his international debut in 2011 and test debut in 2013. Quite a body of work already.
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Old 16th February 2020, 20:44   #317
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I was just thinking the other day about who is better out of Stokes and Flintoff. Botham was a bit early for me so I can't judge. I think I'd have to go for Stokes, it helps that he has managed to stay fit in his peak years. Only 28 too so plenty more to come hopefully.
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Old 16th February 2020, 21:10   #318
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For me as far as game changers are concerned Stokes is better than Flintoff but not as good as Botham. I saw Botham as a youngster and he was mesmerising. Cricket's Roy of the Rovers. Bars emptied when he was batting and sometimes when he bowled as well.
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Old 16th February 2020, 21:24   #319
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He made his international debut in 2011 and test debut in 2013. Quite a body of work already.
Yes, but you're comparing him to three players who've all played over 100 tests. Hard to know how long he'll go for, but say he plays for another 6 years. That might be fifty more tests (on top of his current 63), and possibly two more Ashes series, another world cup and two T20 WCs. If we had stopped Ian Bell 7 years and 60-odd tests into his test career, he'd have been averaging high-40s and in the middle of his main purple patch. Stokes still has too much story left to write to finalise a judgement at this stage.
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Old 16th February 2020, 21:54   #320
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Yes, but you're comparing him to three players who've all played over 100 tests. Hard to know how long he'll go for, but say he plays for another 6 years. That might be fifty more tests (on top of his current 63), and possibly two more Ashes series, another world cup and two T20 WCs. If we had stopped Ian Bell 7 years and 60-odd tests into his test career, he'd have been averaging high-40s and in the middle of his main purple patch. Stokes still has too much story left to write to finalise a judgement at this stage.
As a test player, fair enough. But Stokes already has a World Cup winners medal and his overall contribution might have already exceeded that of two others. Pietersen has a world t20 medal in a tournament he bossed.
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