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Old 21st February 2018, 13:10   #21
Ali TT
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Giving up proper cricket hasn't worked out for Mitchell McClenaghen thus far. No guarantees it'll work for any of this lot. I'd think you'd lose a fair bit of focus by doing this and it might negatively impact your overall ability, even if it might improve potential longevity. Makes sense for Tymal Mills, maybe. Not sure it will for anyone else.
It seems to have been OK for a number of West Indian cricketers though, and for their T20I side.
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Old 21st February 2018, 13:40   #22
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...The likes of Hales, Billings, Rashid etc aren't good enough to be enduring Test players so no great loss there. ...
I'm not sure I'd include Rashid in that or that there is an absolute measure of how good a player needs to be to be considered for test cricket. He only needs to be good enough relative to others. Even given how the ECB have treated him, I'd say Rashid met that criterion.
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Old 21st February 2018, 13:50   #23
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I'm not sure I'd include Rashid in that or that there is an absolute measure of how good a player needs to be to be considered for test cricket. He only needs to be good enough relative to others. Even given how the ECB have treated him, I'd say Rashid met that criterion.
All the same, no great loss.
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Old 21st February 2018, 13:57   #24
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Unfortunately, a career cut too short to say that with any certainty.
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Old 21st February 2018, 14:11   #25
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Unfortunately, a career cut too short to say that with any certainty.
Well, this is kinda what I mean. The selectors ditched Rashid from their plans this winter, so him giving up red ball cricket doesn't constitute a loss to Team England as they've already jettisoned him.

Not that nailing down an enduring Test career is anything like easy for the English leggie. I'm trying to think of the last one to do so and it's probably Doug Wright, who played his final Test while the old King was still alive.
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Old 21st February 2018, 15:51   #26
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Yes, enduring leg spin careers have been very few and far between throughout all test cricket. England could have taken a bigger punt on Rashid though, I reckon. Australia did with Warne and, though stats never tell the full story, Rashid's figures for his 10 test career compare favourably with Warne's after 10 tests.
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Old 21st February 2018, 16:50   #27
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Yes, enduring leg spin careers have been very few and far between throughout all test cricket. England could have taken a bigger punt on Rashid though, I reckon. Australia did with Warne and, though stats never tell the full story, Rashid's figures for his 10 test career compare favourably with Warne's after 10 tests.
He has a Test strike rate superior to both Verity and Underwood. But he's gone for many more runs per wicket and England selectors don't like that. They get very excited when a young leggie comes on the scene but then terribly jittery when he serves up loose deliveries - almost inevitable for leggies but far less common amongst the finger spinners.
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Old 21st February 2018, 18:30   #28
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Well, this is kinda what I mean. The selectors ditched Rashid from their plans this winter, so him giving up red ball cricket doesn't constitute a loss to Team England as they've already jettisoned him.

Not that nailing down an enduring Test career is anything like easy for the English leggie. I'm trying to think of the last one to do so and it's probably Doug Wright, who played his final Test while the old King was still alive.
Collis King?
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Old 21st February 2018, 18:46   #29
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Collis King?
He knew where the Grand Stand was.
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Old 21st February 2018, 20:10   #30
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Would very much like to see Roy get a run in the test team. For me his style is generally quite orthodox and he plays pretty straight. In that sense he's much more a test prospect than Hales ever was.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 09:52   #31
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He has a Test strike rate superior to both Verity and Underwood. But he's gone for many more runs per wicket and England selectors don't like that. They get very excited when a young leggie comes on the scene but then terribly jittery when he serves up loose deliveries - almost inevitable for leggies but far less common amongst the finger spinners.
Perhaps England selectors need to wake up to the facts that batsmen now have bats that are nearly all "middle" and play on grounds with the boundary ropes substantially closer to the wicket.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 10:07   #32
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One factor to consider is that those in the England Test side may not be able to play in the new English super league as it seems there is going to be a fixture clash.

Stokes, Root and Bairstow won't be too fussed with their huge red ball central contracts to compensate them for missing out.

But you can see why those on the fringes of the England Test side who are not centrally contracted - Rashid, Hales and may be Buttler, Roy, Billings, Jordan, Liam Dawson et al - might give up red ball cricket so as to maximise their earnings from the new league.

Players who are on the fringe of the Test squad may find their price is depressed in the draft because the eight new teams fear they might lose them to Test match call-ups.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 12:44   #33
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Part of Rashid's reasoning for not taking up f/c cricket this season is that he tends to not play the first few games in any case when conditions are hardly pro wrist spin as a rule. Once he gets into May then he is likely to be in the England white ball squad, then it is on to the t20s and back to international white ball cricket at the back end of the season. So he wasn't likely to play much red ball stuff even if he was wanted.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 18:37   #34
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Hales and Rashid have both put their names in the hat for the CPL, which runs from August 8 to September 16.

We can now see their thinking more clearly- they don't want to be prevented from earning good money in the CPL by having to participate in the final five/six weeks of the county championship prgramme when it resumes in mid-August after the T20 Blast.
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Old 24th February 2018, 07:41   #35
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But just look at the number of england specialist t20 cricketers who played in the big bash. Seems to have helped the recent t20 results - not!
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Old 24th February 2018, 09:09   #36
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It seems to have been OK for a number of West Indian cricketers though, and for their T20I side.
Somewhat driven by the shambles that is the WICB. I'm not quite sure the same level of dysfunction applies to NZ and England.
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Old 24th February 2018, 11:00   #37
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I'm not sure I'd include Rashid in that or that there is an absolute measure of how good a player needs to be to be considered for test cricket. He only needs to be good enough relative to others. Even given how the ECB have treated him, I'd say Rashid met that criterion.
Unfortunately though that kind of thinking is distinctly old hat nowadays in the realm of spin bowling. You can see from what the selectors do, and from what people on here repeatedly say, that picking the best available spinner is a last resort only to be taken if there are no batsmen available who can bowl a bit of spin. Put simply, the only discipline in which one's skill relative to one's competitors is certain to be relevant to selection is batting.
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Old 24th February 2018, 11:16   #38
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But just look at the number of england specialist t20 cricketers who played in the big bash. Seems to have helped the recent t20 results - not!
There weren't actually that many English players in it. The Aussies however picked a team from those in the best form during the Bash and marmalised us and New Zealand.
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Old 28th February 2018, 10:26   #39
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Steve Waugh on the likelihood of Australian players abandoning the cherry:


I hope not; it probably will but I think that’s a real shame, particularly for those guys.

They will end up their career… sure they will have some nice financial rewards but they will probably sit back one day and go, ‘Jeez. I wonder how good I might have been at Test cricket if I had really given it a 100 per cent shot?’

That’s a personal decision and a business decision these days. It’s not for me to say it’s wrong but I just think maybe they will regret that later on.

They’ve probably thought about it and if they’re not getting picked in certain teams, maybe it’s easier playing white-ball cricket.

The financial rewards are there and it’s less exposure. The games are forgotten 10 minutes after they’re played so there’s not as much pressure.
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Old 28th February 2018, 10:32   #40
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Steve Waugh on the likelihood of Australian players abandoning the cherry:

The financial rewards are there and it’s less exposure. The games are forgotten 10 minutes after they’re played so there’s not as much pressure.[/i]


So true.

And I wonder whether that will determine the longevity of the format?
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