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Old 21st September 2018, 12:26   #5601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jock McTuffnel v3 View Post
Stoneman vs Buttler.

One has it - the other doesn't. One grabbed his test chance this year - the other didn't last year.

County red ball stats wouldn't show you that. In fact Buttler hadn't played much red ball cricket at all.
You’re defining it as Stoneman v Buttler? Hardly a top 3 issue then, is it, which is where we’re looking to cover? Not saying Buttler didn’t have a good summer either but he was hardly extraordinary.

Anyway, let’s assume you’re right about the two of them. How does that help us get a better top 3?
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Old 21st September 2018, 12:32   #5602
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You’re defining it as Stoneman v Buttler? Hardly a top 3 issue then, is it, which is where we’re looking to cover? Not saying Buttler didn’t have a good summer either but he was hardly extraordinary.

Anyway, let’s assume you’re right about the two of them. How does that help us get a better top 3?
The point was about mentality not technique or position.
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Old 21st September 2018, 13:35   #5603
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The point was about mentality not technique or position.
Yes and my counter point, if it wasn’t clear, is that you’re cherry picking two totally uncomparable players and in discussing the top 3, only one of them bats there. It’s also a post hoc analysis. You could similarly point to the best performing batsman each series or season (comparing him to one of the worst) and say similar. It would be a respectable point if you’d made it a priori, although even then you could just have got lucky.
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Old 21st September 2018, 15:38   #5604
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Yes and my counter point, if it wasn’t clear, is that you’re cherry picking two totally uncomparable players and in discussing the top 3, only one of them bats there. It’s also a post hoc analysis. You could similarly point to the best performing batsman each series or season (comparing him to one of the worst) and say similar. It would be a respectable point if you’d made it a priori, although even then you could just have got lucky.
Like comparing moeen vs Rashid from the recent series, for example?
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Old 21st September 2018, 17:22   #5605
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so Porter carries the drinks all summer and then is replaced by Stone.
Malan was more suited to batting abroad but is staying behind for the also previously discarded Pope.
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Old 21st September 2018, 17:32   #5606
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so Porter carries the drinks all summer and then is replaced by Stone.
Malan was more suited to batting abroad but is staying behind for the also previously discarded Pope.
Who will be the 16 in the Lions squad?
Surely Porter and Overton will get in there. Maybe Malan.
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Old 21st September 2018, 17:37   #5607
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Who will be the 16 in the Lions squad?
Surely Porter and Overton will get in there. Maybe Malan.
Davies, probably not Livingstone or Hameed. Gleeson? But probably not Mahmood. Parkinson?

Roy, Joe Clarke, Foakes, Virdi.

Is Archer eligible for A tours?

Last edited by Fred : 21st September 2018 at 17:50.
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Old 21st September 2018, 17:46   #5608
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Davies, probably not Livingstone or Hameed. Gleeson? But probably not Mahmood. Parkinson?

Roy, Clarke, Foakes, Virdi.

Is Archer eligible for A tours?
Ironically going on a Lions tour might go against Archer being in the country for the required amount of time if he is likely to play Big Bash and IPL as well. Ollie Robinson might be the more likely of the Sussex bowlers.
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Old 21st September 2018, 18:00   #5609
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Yes and my counter point, if it wasn’t clear, is that you’re cherry picking two totally uncomparable players and in discussing the top 3, only one of them bats there. It’s also a post hoc analysis. You could similarly point to the best performing batsman each series or season (comparing him to one of the worst) and say similar. It would be a respectable point if you’d made it a priori, although even then you could just have got lucky.
You are welcome.
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Old 21st September 2018, 18:00   #5610
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Ironically going on a Lions tour might go against Archer being in the country for the required amount of time if he is likely to play Big Bash and IPL as well. Ollie Robinson might be the more likely of the Sussex bowlers.
Lawrence, Tongue, Kohler-Cadmore, Chappell?

Where are they going?
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Old 21st September 2018, 18:01   #5611
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Davies, probably not Livingstone or Hameed. Gleeson? But probably not Mahmood. Parkinson?

Roy, Clarke, Foakes, Virdi.

Is Archer eligible for A tours?

KP was called up by England almost immediately after he completed four years with Nottinghamshire.

Engand A 14 February 2004
ODI debut 28 November 2004
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Old 21st September 2018, 18:01   #5612
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Lawrence, Tongue, Kohler-Cadmore, Chappell?

Where are they going?
Nottingham?
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Old 21st September 2018, 18:06   #5613
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so Porter carries the drinks all summer and then is replaced by Stone.
Seems reasonable to me - Porter is probably better suited to English conditions. England need to get a bit of pace into their attack (especially overseas) and Stone has had an excellent season.
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Malan was more suited to batting abroad but is staying behind for the also previously discarded Pope.
Smith ****ed up by making that statement. Malan isn't good enough.
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Old 21st September 2018, 19:39   #5614
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Quote:
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Malan was more suited to batting abroad but is staying behind for the also previously discarded Pope.
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Smith ****ed up by making that statement. Malan isn't good enough.
I suspect he specifically meant Australia and South Africa rather than the Subcontinent. Sounds a bit like a throwback to when Peter Willey was always picked against the West Indies pace battery in the 1980s.

I wouldn't be surprised if Malan captains the Lions though. The Lions tour squad always seems to be an eclectic blend of obvious potential Test candidates, including one or two recent discards, and tyros with barely any experience above 2nd XI level, e.g. George Hatton.
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Old 22nd September 2018, 00:20   #5615
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I suspect he specifically meant Australia and South Africa rather than the Subcontinent. Sounds a bit like a throwback to when Peter Willey was always picked against the West Indies pace battery in the 1980s.
That's how I took the comments, aligned with watching Malan bat.
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Old 28th September 2018, 13:42   #5616
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ODI/T20 contracts: Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Eoin Morgan (Middlesex), Liam Plunkett (Surrey), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), David Willey (Yorkshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).
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Old 21st October 2018, 17:50   #5617
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I reckon 11 of the WC 15 are already picked:

1. Morgan
2. Roy
3. Bairstow
4. Hales
5. Root
6. Stokes
7. Buttler
8. Ali
9. Rashid
10. Woakes
11. Plunkett

Three additional seamers will get in. That’ll be out of CurranS, CurranT, Willey, Wood, Stone and Ball. Tom Curran, David Willey and Olly Stone are probably favourites right now. Willey always seems to find a way in.

They’ll then have a decision to make on whether they want a backup spinner or another middle order batsman. Dawson or Denly gives them a bit of both. Livingstone also provides similar cover. I suppose Billings or Malan would be more solid batting bets. Having said that, I don’t remember Billings ever doing anything amazing for England.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 15:46   #5618
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I reckon 11 of the WC 15 are already picked:

1. Morgan
2. Roy
3. Bairstow
4. Hales
5. Root
6. Stokes
7. Buttler
8. Ali
9. Rashid
10. Woakes
11. Plunkett

Three additional seamers will get in. That’ll be out of CurranS, CurranT, Willey, Wood, Stone and Ball. Tom Curran, David Willey and Olly Stone are probably favourites right now. Willey always seems to find a way in.

They’ll then have a decision to make on whether they want a backup spinner or another middle order batsman. Dawson or Denly gives them a bit of both. Livingstone also provides similar cover. I suppose Billings or Malan would be more solid batting bets. Having said that, I don’t remember Billings ever doing anything amazing for England.
Regarding the pace bowlers I'd go for both Currans and keep an open mind about the final spot until the last minute.

As a left arm pacer who can bat Junior is a far more talented cricketer than Willey, although I'd be open to picking both. I'm just reading an article in the Times spelling out Wood's ODI statistics, which are among the poorest for England players with his level of experience in terms of average, economy rate and strike rate.

I don't think Stone is a proven white ball bowler at all. He reminds me of Stuart Meaker 5 or 6 years ago. Worth a chance in Test cricket as a seriously quick bowler, but limited overs cricket just isn't going to showcase him at his best. (Meaker was ruined after going on an ODI tour of India a few years ago when he only played the white ball matches for Surrey as an understudy. )
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Old 23rd October 2018, 16:26   #5619
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Regarding the pace bowlers I'd go for both Currans and keep an open mind about the final spot until the last minute.

As a left arm pacer who can bat Junior is a far more talented cricketer than Willey, although I'd be open to picking both. I'm just reading an article in the Times spelling out Wood's ODI statistics, which are among the poorest for England players with his level of experience in terms of average, economy rate and strike rate.

I don't think Stone is a proven white ball bowler at all. He reminds me of Stuart Meaker 5 or 6 years ago. Worth a chance in Test cricket as a seriously quick bowler, but limited overs cricket just isn't going to showcase him at his best. (Meaker was ruined after going on an ODI tour of India a few years ago when he only played the white ball matches for Surrey as an understudy. )
I agree on Wood. Hasn’t done anything to warrant selection. My worry is that we pick a squad with no bowler capable of bowling fast. Think we’ll need it on some of the flatter tracks. Stone seems to have a bit more about him than Wood. Jamie Overton is another seamer I like the look of.

Really and truly it’s a shame that neither Tymal Mills or Jofra Archer can play. They’d be better than all of the above. But with those out of the question, I’d probably go with CurranT, Willey and Stone to join Woakes and Plunkett. Willey always seems to do well at home.
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Old 24th October 2018, 15:26   #5620
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I think at this stage I would be getting both Broad and Anderson back into the ODI squad. Using them as test-only players in recent years has had the effect of keeping them fit for tests. It might also have been intended to have the effect of allowing us to develop new ODI seamers. Woakes has come through nicely and Plunkett seems fairly reliable (I wouldn't read much into his very recent performances), but I think that Broad and Anderson are head and shoulders above the others that Redmachine lists (CurranS, CurranT, Willey, Wood, Stone and Ball), and I don't think there's any good reason why England wouldn't want their best bowlers available for the World Cup.
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