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Old 27th November 2017, 07:54   #201
gmdf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jock McTuffnel v3 View Post
When you lose by 10 wickets with nearly a day to spare your problem is taking wickets not average or economy.
I agree.

No real evidence Crane can do that in the way Rashid (for example) has, or Leach might.
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Old 27th November 2017, 08:14   #202
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Originally Posted by Jock McTuffnel v3 View Post
When you lose by 10 wickets with nearly a day to spare your problem is taking wickets not average or economy.
So why would you pick some with a significantly worse average and economy and is unlikely to contribute a significant number of runs?
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Old 27th November 2017, 08:15   #203
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So we are clear he wasn’t injured going into the match.


Team selection for the second test got tricker now.

If Mo is only in for batting then who missed out ? Malan and Vince at least got to 50.

Play an all medium pace attack plus Root ?
Erm...did his split finger prevent him from getting through his action properly? Or can't you have two injuries?
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Old 27th November 2017, 09:40   #204
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
To lose by ten wickets when the oppo were 100 behind and only 3 wickets left on first innings is pretty impressive.

The puzzling ball selection...

On a pitch where The second most expensive bowler on either side in the first innings went for 2.8, He managed 1 for 115 off 26 overs (4.4 economy) in The match.

Mind blowing selection and sadly predictable. His career economy is much worse than overton so sadly unexpected. What was behind it?
Miaow. Some people bleat about others with their agenda, oh that's you and it's you who does the bleating. YJB said Ball had been hitting the gloves the hardest and the management desperately wanted him in, oh and your man obviously hadn't impressed much, certainly Ball managed more runs against a decent bowling attack in one knock that your man managed in three against nobodies.

Stop whining, accept that Ball now should play the next two Tests, if fit, and wait for Overton's time. Ball is being screwed by being an English seamer never playing a Test on a proper English pitch, whereas Overton will get his chance and it will be on a seamer at Headingley. Sometimes a player can be more fortunate with the Tests he doesn't play in and that would appear to be Overton's case. If he gets a game at the MCG and SCG after we've lost the Ashess and then in NZ he'll be the winner.

Oh, if you want to blame somebody for this, vent your spleen at Ben Stokes, 'cos it's his fault we're even having this discussion. No one else is to blame.
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:05   #205
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... Strauss also appointed Bayliss over Gillespie - if you consider Bayliss at fault - and suspended England's best player before he'd even been charged with anything.
Please keep up, Geebes. Anyone who's been paying attention knows that in your tedious and twisted narrative of hate, our "best player" was charged and found guilty of looking out of a window.

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... The reason [Ali] is playing is three fold. ... 3. The selectors bought into some fanatical fans saying we need a leggie but have since realised he can't play in a four man attack because he will get smashed. ...
Surely the reason for the Ball selection that you so roundly despise is simply that Ali cannot be trusted to play in a four man attack?

Please remember what happened last time you reverted to 12 posts of one-eyed Somerset- and Ali-loving tripe per hour, and remember there are four more tests to go, all of which are liable to eat into one's normal sleeping time, and all of which are liable to include (a) no Somerset players at all, and (b) Ali getting bashed around the park. You'll wear yourself out if you're not careful.
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:09   #206
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Miaow. Some people bleat about others with their agenda, oh that's you and it's you who does the bleating. YJB said Ball had been hitting the gloves the hardest and the management desperately wanted him in, oh and your man obviously hadn't impressed much, certainly Ball managed more runs against a decent bowling attack in one knock that your man managed in three against nobodies.

Stop whining, accept that Ball now should play the next two Tests, if fit, and wait for Overton's time. Ball is being screwed by being an English seamer never playing a Test on a proper English pitch, whereas Overton will get his chance and it will be on a seamer at Headingley. Sometimes a player can be more fortunate with the Tests he doesn't play in and that would appear to be Overton's case. If he gets a game at the MCG and SCG after we've lost the Ashess and then in NZ he'll be the winner.

Oh, if you want to blame somebody for this, vent your spleen at Ben Stokes, 'cos it's his fault we're even having this discussion. No one else is to blame.
Nice post. I will try not to suggest that someone who came 7th in the Notts averages in division 2 (5th if you exclude those with fewer than 15 wickets) with 27 wickets at 25 economy of 3.68 might not do as well as someone who got 46 div 1 wickets at 22 at an economy of 2.76. Sorry.

My worry about ball is that he needs the new ball to thrive. Do you think he looked fit?
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:15   #207
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...We need Stokes back -pretty obvious he’s not going to be charged.
If that's the case, why hasn't the decision been announced? After this debacle, I'm sure the ECB will be wanting to know as soon as possible.

Perhaps the investigations are not yet complete.
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:21   #208
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
...The reason he is playing is three fold.

1. He is one of our best 6 batsmen
2. He is our best spin bowler in the squad.
3. The selectors bought into some fanatical fans saying we need a leggie but have since realised he can't play in a four man attack because he will get smashed. ...
1. In the squad, perhaps, but debateable.
2. That is the fault of the selectors.
3. I think this leggie was always unlikely to take the field in a test match.
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:39   #209
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Bring back Stokes. We will birch him after the ashes.
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:39   #210
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
Nice post. I will try not to suggest that someone who came 7th in the Notts averages in division 2 (5th if you exclude those with fewer than 15 wickets) with 27 wickets at 25 economy of 3.68 might not do as well as someone who got 46 div 1 wickets at 22 at an economy of 2.76. Sorry.

My worry about ball is that he needs the new ball to thrive. Do you think he looked fit?
How many bowlers that England have on tour that are likely to fit that description? Doesn't matter which fast-medium or medium-fast bowler they had played, I can't see it would have made much of a difference to the overall picture, i.e. that type of bowling doesn't blast out Australian batsmen in conditions with little lateral movement and that the Aussie quicks would enjoy blasting out 9,10 Jack.
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:49   #211
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Ball did get Warner out for 26 in the first innings, shortly after which we had Australia 4 down for 76. Pity he couldn't do it in the second.
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:54   #212
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How many bowlers that England have on tour that are likely to fit that description? Doesn't matter which fast-medium or medium-fast bowler they had played, I can't see it would have made much of a difference to the overall picture, i.e. that type of bowling doesn't blast out Australian batsmen in conditions with little lateral movement and that the Aussie quicks would enjoy blasting out 9,10 Jack.
We don't have a genuinely quick bowler who can blast out the tail. The comms were longing for plunkett. Who a) isn't that quick and b) rarely plays FC cricket these days.

My views is that we should stop trying to recreate what works for oz and do the best we can. The one thing craig brings that others don't is surprising bounce and is capable of doing it on slow pitches (see his bowling vs Middlesex compared to Finn). My issue with the ball selection was that it was clearly a gamble and he is not a standout bowler worth the gamble I.e. Not broad or Jimmy.

Would overton have made a difference at 200/7? We don't know. Could he have done worse? Not really.
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Old 27th November 2017, 11:05   #213
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My worry about ball is that he needs the new ball to thrive. Do you think he looked fit?
I'm not sure he looked as fit as I've seen him look, that is true.

Not sure he does need the new ball but he is very effective with it. He won't have taken it in the warm up game he completed so the set up's belief that he is their man shouldn't be based on him having a new nut.

As posted, I do believe that Overton will get his chance. Ball was selected back in 2016 and hasn't been given much of a chance, a game at Lord's then two in India is hardly a good sample to measure how useful a young bowler is, I'm sure you'd be hacked off if that was Overton's lot. They should give him a chance in the same way that they do the batsmen, why is it that bowlers are easier to drop?
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Old 27th November 2017, 11:06   #214
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Overton may have been thought by the selectors to offer less of a threat than Ball. Perhaps that's why he wasn't selected.

From what I've seen, he's overrated and quite fortunate to be in the squad.
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Old 27th November 2017, 11:15   #215
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Overton may have been thought by the selectors to offer less of a threat than Ball. Perhaps that's why he wasn't selected.

From what I've seen, he's overrated and quite fortunate to be in the squad.
Did you miss Scarborough this year where he got 9 wickets for 134 to win the match for Somerset?
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Old 27th November 2017, 11:17   #216
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Did you miss Scarborough this year where he got 9 wickets for 134 to win the match for Somerset?
The question has to be why he didn't get more than nine wickets, surely if he was any good he would have done
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Old 27th November 2017, 11:20   #217
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
Did you miss Scarborough this year where he got 9 wickets for 134 to win the match for Somerset?
A case for any bowler, though not a very good one, may be put forward on the basis of one match.

Oh, dear. Why am I telling you that?
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Old 27th November 2017, 11:34   #218
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A case for any bowler, though not a very good one, may be put forward on the basis of one match.

Oh, dear. Why am I telling you that?
I wish I could make a case for him winning us the match at headingley the year before but although he blew away your top order in the first innings he failed in the second because leach was too busy getting better figures than rashid has in his whole headingley career.
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Old 27th November 2017, 13:20   #219
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There you go again.
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Old 27th November 2017, 17:26   #220
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Good to reconnect again.
Ashes wise, we pretty much where I expected to be. Denial's the name of the game.
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