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Old 27th August 2019, 00:56   #1
1000yardstare
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Concussion in Cricket

Concussion tests by doctor or physio take about 5 minutes and they usually don't come out with a new helmet. So more time for that.

1st Test
Burns - Cummins
Smith - Stokes

2nd Test
Denly - Hazlewood
Woakes - Cummins
Smith - Archer - concussed
Labuscagne - Archer
Wade - Archer

3rd Test
Labuscagne - Broad
Labuscagne - Archer
Denly - Cummins
Stokes - Hazelwood
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Old 2nd September 2019, 18:52   #2
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Bravo just became the second batsman to be subbed because of concussion.

There is an interesting implication here regarding his substitute. For the touring team of course it is easy to get a substitute, they will most likely be at the ground carrying the drinks and acting as a sub fielder. For home teams however it has been common practice to use local players for those duties, and a suitable replacement might not be readily available. Will we see home squads with a spare batsman and a spare bowler just to be used as concussion substitutes?
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Old 3rd September 2019, 10:00   #3
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There's been a long, quite impassioned discussion amongst Association of Cricket Statisticians and Historians members about this issue. A number have made a strong case that, given what we know now about the dangers of concussion, short pitched bowling (e.g. a ball above chest height) should be outlawed. One writer proposed 6 penalty runs for one delivery, and the same plus the bowler being removed from the attack for a 2nd offence in any one innings.

Personally l was on the opposite side... but this is a debate we may hear more of in the future.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 10:07   #4
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Originally Posted by gmdf View Post
There's been a long, quite impassioned discussion amongst Association of Cricket Statisticians and Historians members about this issue. A number have made a strong case that, given what we know now about the dangers of concussion, short pitched bowling (e.g. a ball above chest height) should be outlawed. One writer proposed 6 penalty runs for one delivery, and the same plus the bowler being removed from the attack for a 2nd offence in any one innings.

Personally l was on the opposite side... but this is a debate we may hear more of in the future.
There should be a bit better managing of the use of the short ball. It doesn't appear that umpires tend to police it at all at the moment. However, you would seriously damage fast bowling if you were to compromise them.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 10:32   #5
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One aspect that intrigues me is that I don't recall many incidents of players being hit on the head when they weren't helmets around - this must be a technique issue, as the helmet must give the batsman more assurance that they wont be hurt, whereas in old days they needed to learn how to avoid being hurt
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Old 3rd September 2019, 10:39   #6
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Originally Posted by gmdf View Post
There's been a long, quite impassioned discussion amongst Association of Cricket Statisticians and Historians members about this issue. A number have made a strong case that, given what we know now about the dangers of concussion, short pitched bowling (e.g. a ball above chest height) should be outlawed. One writer proposed 6 penalty runs for one delivery, and the same plus the bowler being removed from the attack for a 2nd offence in any one innings.

Personally l was on the opposite side... but this is a debate we may hear more of in the future.
If they want to finally kill off test cricket then that's how you'd do it.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 10:46   #7
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One aspect that intrigues me is that I don't recall many incidents of players being hit on the head when they weren't helmets around - this must be a technique issue, as the helmet must give the batsman more assurance that they wont be hurt, whereas in old days they needed to learn how to avoid being hurt
Agreed, and if you allow concussion substitutes then you're only offering another form of protection really.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 11:05   #8
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banning short pitched bowling would be a bit like banning tackling in rugby
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Old 3rd September 2019, 11:35   #9
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I agree with those who say it would kill test cricket. If it was done then they would need to reduce the width of the bat or something like that to even it up. Maybe three misses and you are out?

I think cricket might end up with allowing a tactical sub. Keep a spinner in the squad for second innings etc. If not a sub then teams should not have to name their team at the toss. They should get two mins after the toss once they know what they are doing.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 17:53   #10
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One aspect that intrigues me is that I don't recall many incidents of players being hit on the head when they weren't helmets around - this must be a technique issue, as the helmet must give the batsman more assurance that they wont be hurt, whereas in old days they needed to learn how to avoid being hurt
Did they? I saw an interview only recently with Botham when he recalled walking to the crease against the Windies and standing in a pool of blood after the previous batsman had been flattened. Gatting had his black eye, there was the England opener who strode out to face Marshall and woke up in hospital... Hell, even years ago didn't an Aussie captain have his heart stopped in a bodyline test after being hit on the chest. I'm sure there are plenty of egs we've just forgotten.

I suspect a few things have changed over the years, other than player technique:
- growing medical awareness of the consequences of concussion means less willing to allow sports people to brush off hits to the head
- increasing legal challenges by ex-players in sports where head impacts are common, who've suffered brain damage later in life ,meaning more proactive regulations to prevent injury
- in cricket, a focus on short form cricket means techniques are developed in environments where short pitched bowling is less common
- test attacks that are, on a whole, faster than those of 40+ years ago
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Old 3rd September 2019, 18:05   #11
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is the bowling any faster these days - the West Indies teams in the 70's/ 80's, Lillee & Thompson, Wasim & Waqar etc don't seem to be any slower than the bowlers of today. Difficult to tell for sure, obviously.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 21:12   #12
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Did they? I saw an interview only recently with Botham when he recalled walking to the crease against the Windies and standing in a pool of blood after the previous batsman had been flattened. Gatting had his black eye, there was the England opener who strode out to face Marshall and woke up in hospital... Hell, even years ago didn't an Aussie captain have his heart stopped in a bodyline test after being hit on the chest. I'm sure there are plenty of egs we've just forgotten.

I suspect a few things have changed over the years, other than player technique:
- growing medical awareness of the consequences of concussion means less willing to allow sports people to brush off hits to the head
- increasing legal challenges by ex-players in sports where head impacts are common, who've suffered brain damage later in life ,meaning more proactive regulations to prevent injury
- in cricket, a focus on short form cricket means techniques are developed in environments where short pitched bowling is less common
- test attacks that are, on a whole, faster than those of 40+ years ago
Nari Contractor was almost killed in 1962 by a ball to his head.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 21:23   #13
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is the bowling any faster these days - the West Indies teams in the 70's/ 80's, Lillee & Thompson, Wasim & Waqar etc don't seem to be any slower than the bowlers of today. Difficult to tell for sure, obviously.
It's hard because there's no reliable speed measurement beyond about 20 years ago. I'm certainly not convinced that Craig White really bowled at 97mph. The improvement in fitness and athleticism since the the 70s would point to improvements in pace bowling speeds, I'd suggest.

I reckon that the current Aussie attack is as fast as the West Indies of old (if they played Starc alongside Hazelwood, Cummins, Pattinson). The Ws were at their peak in the 90s anyhow.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 21:31   #14
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is the bowling any faster these days - the West Indies teams in the 70's/ 80's, Lillee & Thompson, Wasim & Waqar etc don't seem to be any slower than the bowlers of today. Difficult to tell for sure, obviously.
Wasim and Waqar were quick, but I don't think they bowled as many bouncers, they got a far larger percentage of their wickets as lbw than most pace bowlers. Allan Donald however was fairly brisk as well.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 21:48   #15
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The improvement in fitness and athleticism since the the 70s would point to improvements in pace bowling speeds, I'd suggest.
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I'd suggest that with regards to fast bowlers the fitness and athleticism has gone backwards, fast bowlers seem to be consistently injured these days.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 21:54   #16
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One aspect that intrigues me is that I don't recall many incidents of players being hit on the head when they weren't helmets around - this must be a technique issue, as the helmet must give the batsman more assurance that they wont be hurt, whereas in old days they needed to learn how to avoid being hurt
The helmet is also bigger than the head, so itís actually harder to get out of the way. Also I imagine thereís an increased inertia effect, and perhaps a significantly impaired view. Iíd still want full body armour and a very effective helmet if I had to face a fast bowler.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 22:06   #17
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I'd suggest that with regards to fast bowlers the fitness and athleticism has gone backwards, fast bowlers seem to be consistently injured these days.
Is that really true? Players play far more international cricket these days, so we probably just notice their absences more.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 22:10   #18
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It's hard because there's no reliable speed measurement beyond about 20 years ago. I'm certainly not convinced that Craig White really bowled at 97mph. The improvement in fitness and athleticism since the the 70s would point to improvements in pace bowling speeds, I'd suggest.

I reckon that the current Aussie attack is as fast as the West Indies of old (if they played Starc alongside Hazelwood, Cummins, Pattinson). The Ws were at their peak in the 90s anyhow.
This isnít even the quickest Aussie attack. Surely the attack of Lee, Gillespie and McGrath in the early 00ís was quicker than this one. I would say that the combo in 2013/14 was also quicker than this.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 22:40   #19
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Concussion tests by doctor or physio take about 5 minutes and they usually don't come out with a new helmet. So more time for that.

1st Test
Burns - Cummins
Smith - Stokes

2nd Test
Denly - Hazlewood
Woakes - Cummins
Smith - Archer - concussed
Labuscagne - Archer
Wade - Archer

3rd Test
Labuscagne - Broad
Labuscagne - Archer
Denly - Cummins
Stokes - Hazelwood
I think the concussion tests are sensible. However, the time lost needs to added on to the end of the days play (along with all other delays).
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Old 3rd September 2019, 22:45   #20
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This isnít even the quickest Aussie attack. Surely the attack of Lee, Gillespie and McGrath in the early 00ís was quicker than this one. I would say that the combo in 2013/14 was also quicker than this.
Not sure about McGrath and co. He was low 80s by then, Dizzy a bit quicker, but Lee obviously express.
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